doctorow — 2014-01-22T09:42:23-05:00 — #1
ashen_victor — 2014-01-22T09:58:46-05:00 — #2
As we say in Spain: "They are going to turn his ass into a duck´s birdbath!"
Hurray for justice!
hojo — 2014-01-22T10:05:49-05:00 — #3
The physicians who did this crime will lose their licenses, guaranteed. As they should. The hospital that employed these thugs will lose many millions of dollars and will probably be destroyed. As it should be.
I am still stunned that there are citizens out there willing to be complicit with a criminal police state class of thugs like this.
themetalpedant — 2014-01-22T10:07:51-05:00 — #4
I'm still gobsmacked over the fact that, at least from the info we have, not one medical "professional" objected to any of this. Everybody expects this bullshit from cops, but the fact that a whole medical team would basically say, "A whole bunch of invasive procedures without patient consent? Eh, sounds O.K. to me" is gut wrenching. The financial penalties are a good start, but anything that doesn't include every single doctor and nurse losing their ability to practice medicine at the very least would be ridiculous.
dr_awkward — 2014-01-22T10:16:27-05:00 — #6
Every last one of them (cops and docs) should be charged with rape and, if found guilty, put on a sex offender registry.
manybellsdown — 2014-01-22T10:16:36-05:00 — #7
That's what I found so incredible. I needed surgery a couple years ago, and due to a congenital heart defect, they refused to put me under anesthesia unless two cardiologists signed off on the procedure. But "someone said he might have drugs" and boom they sedated the guy.
darkmobius — 2014-01-22T10:26:16-05:00 — #8
Read the original article, doctors did refuse!
the Gila Regional Medical Center (which performed the searches after doctors at the Deming hospital refused to)
I honestly don't know if that makes things better that there are physicians with principles or make the staff at Gila seem so much worse.
snig — 2014-01-22T10:28:31-05:00 — #9
I think we agree they should, I don't know if they will.
nonentity — 2014-01-22T10:34:56-05:00 — #10
Eckert has received $1.6 million and the implicit admission that he was wronged by the city and county via the officers' actions.
Only implicit because, of course, "Under the terms of the settlement, police admit no wrongdoing."
ffabian — 2014-01-22T10:36:14-05:00 — #11
As long as there are taxpayer funded settlements and not one of the perpetrators is punished individually there will be no deterrence effect.
See. No wrongdoing - so why punish the officers if they did no wrong?
gadgetgirl02 — 2014-01-22T10:47:20-05:00 — #12
They might get indirectly punished for raping a guy who knows how to bring forward a winning lawsuit. I agree it probably won't be a direct punishment.
thomasta — 2014-01-22T11:08:45-05:00 — #13
While I agree that the medical team really fouled up and totally tortured this guy, it was the cops that put them up to it.
Not an excuse at all, but Milgram says that people do some fucked up shit when told by an authority figure.
hojo — 2014-01-22T11:18:31-05:00 — #14
The whole appeal to authority is no excuse. These MDs are criminal rapists, as Dr_Awkward said above. I would classify them as worse than the cops in that regard, as the physicians actually did the invasive procedures against the guy's will; the cops were only giving instructions. What was the possible downside for the MDs if they refused??!? Would the cops haul them in on trumped up charges--the old "failure to comply with an officer of the law" crap?
I never understood how Russia went communist, how Japan went insane with nationalism, what happened in Rwanda, or any of the other madness of crowds things, but seeing horrors like this take place in my country makes me realize that there are plenty of quietly psychopathic monsters lurking in all kinds of positions at all times. All it takes is a nudge and they pop out, ready to turn in neighbors, trample the helpless, and aid and abet a criminal authority.
bearpaw — 2014-01-22T11:27:59-05:00 — #15
Or to put it another way, while the cops really fouled up, it was the medical staff who actually performed the procedures. I work in a small hospital, I'm not in patient care, and I know that the hospital staff should have told the cops to take a hike and reported them as well. The staff broke the law and grossly violated professional ethics.
It's not even a "just following orders" situation, because cops can't give medical orders.
shuck — 2014-01-22T11:34:17-05:00 — #16
It's not nearly enough money yet. Although Deming appears to be quite small and the settlement is likely significant to them (since they're paying most of it), I don't see the amount as big enough that larger cities are going to take notice (this is "it's cheaper to settle than to fight it" levels of cash for them), much less preventatively rein in police as a result, and smaller towns don't usually have a level of police oversight where they might do something about it either. I mean, hell, the city isn't even admitting any wrongdoing.
zachstronaut — 2014-01-22T11:39:34-05:00 — #17
Fines are not a deterrent. Settlements are not a deterrent. And when it is a city settling, then the city's own residents are paying that money anyway.
Criminal charges against individuals instead of fines against organizations is the only way to deter this stuff in the future. And the proof of that very fact is in the reason why it doesn't happen: police departments worry that if cops go to jail for doing law enforcement that it creates an environment where cops are afraid to do law enforcement for fear of personal consequences.
I'm saying maybe cops SHOULD be a little bit afraid that their actions might end up in their own jail time instead of being assured of absolute immunity for their dumbfuckery. And hey, if the judicial system is good enough to decide whether you or I are innocent or guilty, then that same system ought to be good enough to sort bad cops from good cops. So good cops have nothing to worry about.
samsam — 2014-01-22T11:44:26-05:00 — #18
I think a bunch of other doctors objected to the story when it first came out, and mentioned that the police often tried to do the same thing in their own hospitals but were rejected.
But yes, every doctor that knew what was happening and didn't say a word in this hospital should be punished.
samsam — 2014-01-22T11:55:23-05:00 — #19
Here is a bizarre legal response by Dr Odocha, one of the two doctors that did all the violating.
It's a series of statements of the form "As to the allegations [...] Dr. Odocha admits only that [...]. Dr. Odocha is presently without sufficient specific factual knowledge to confirm the precise accuracy of the remaining allegations of fact"
As to the allegations of fact set forth in paragraph 57 of Plaintiff’s Complaint, Dr. Odocha admits only that Gila Regional Medical Center is located in Silver City, Grant County, New Mexico. Dr. Odocha is presently without sufficient specific factual knowledge to confirm the precise accuracy of the remaining allegations of fact"
with more and more things that Dr. Odocha is "only" admitting, finally culminating in
As to the allegations of fact set forth in paragraph 106 of Plaintiff’s Complaint, Dr. Odocha admits only that, according to available medical records, on January 2-3, 2013, the Plaintiff underwent two rectal examinations, two radiologic studies, and a colonoscopy, and two saline enemas and anesthesia were administered to the Plaintiff. Dr. Odocha is presently without sufficient specific factual knowledge to form a belief as to the precise accuracy of the remaining allegations of fact set forth in paragraph 106 of Plaintiff’s Complaint and, therefore, denies the same and demands strict proof thereof.
If that's what you're "only" admitting, and you don't recognize that you've already done wrong, you have serious problems.
endotoxin — 2014-01-22T12:10:46-05:00 — #20
Hundreds, even thousands of patients will be affected if this hospital closes. Lives will be lost. I'm not willing to accept that as collateral damage in order to teach a lesson about criminal assistance. By all means, fire the two hayseeds that cooperated with this search, but don't penalize an entire region in the process.
awjt — 2014-01-22T12:15:09-05:00 — #21
How do you know, for a fact, that other people at the hospital did not have a hand in this?
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