doctorow — 2013-12-18T20:17:43-05:00 — #1
rider — 2013-12-18T20:28:17-05:00 — #2
stephen_schenck — 2013-12-18T20:46:01-05:00 — #3
twx — 2013-12-18T20:54:45-05:00 — #4
How about we prosecute parents or guardians when their children or wards commit felonies of sufficient seriousness? If we're going to grant minors a pass because of their youth and inexperience, shouldn't the party responsible for providing guidance and protection bear at least some responsibility for the actions of the minor in their charge?
crenquis — 2013-12-18T21:01:52-05:00 — #5
Why does it seem that the folks who argue that "kids" are not mature enough for sex-ed/etc, are usually the ones in favor of trying the same kids as adults?
jon_west — 2013-12-18T21:06:41-05:00 — #6
Because sometimes that "mistake" is violently killing people?
morrigan_nic_co — 2013-12-18T22:43:44-05:00 — #7
Why stop there? How about we prosecute voters for every crime committed by the politicians they vote for? They have more direct control over who they vote for than parents have over their kids.
Parents do not possess some magical panopticon that enables them to monitor their children's thoughts and behaviors 24/7. Parents are not the only influence on kids' behavior there is also their peers, their communities, the media and society as a whole. Even kids that have good and involved parents can get involved in criminal behavior or just find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Blaming the parents seems more like an act of blind vengeance and collective punishment than justice...not that I'd ever accuse the NY court system of justice.
morrigan_nic_co — 2013-12-18T22:46:48-05:00 — #8
Not to apologize for "law and order" conservatives and their penchant for harsh punishments for every crime not committed by rich people, but it is interesting to note that NY State has some of the most idiotic and draconian laws in the country, yet is supposedly one of the most "liberal" states. Ditto for California.
morrigan_nic_co — 2013-12-18T22:53:44-05:00 — #9
Yeah, sometimes. But there aren't 40,000 murders a year in NY State.
Sometimes the crime is child prostitution and in NY, 16 and 17-year-old child prostitutes are tried as adults.
“New York was the first state in the nation to pass Safe Harbor legislation that protects minors who are subject to commercial sexual exploitation. According to the legislation, exploited youth are not prosecuted as juvenile delinquents in the Family Court. Instead the Family Court connects them with child welfare services and protections. Because New York is one of only two states in the nation to set the age of criminal responsibility as low as 16, 16- and 17-year-old prostituted children who are arrested in our state are tried in the adult court system, where they are not protected by the Safe Harbor Act. Therefore, these exploited youth remain exposed to criminalization and adult incarceration, and have no access to services that are available under the Family Court Act.”
youth victimized in child sex trade
greenmango — 2013-12-18T22:54:28-05:00 — #10
Meh, how else will they learn to be worse criminals when they get out? Also don't New York and North Carolina have for-profit prisons to fill?
samsam — 2013-12-18T23:22:11-05:00 — #11
That's been BB's, or at least Cory's (I forget), lead-in style for many years.
samsam — 2013-12-18T23:28:10-05:00 — #12
It's just despicable. A 15-year-old is not a fully-formed adult and they do not have a fully-formed adult brain. I mean then from a strict neurobiological perspective. The parts of the brain that are responsible for forward thinking and governing behaviors are not mature yet, no matter how bright your 15-year-old is.
Trying a 15-year-old as an adult is exactly the same as trying a mentally-handicapped person as if they weren't mentally handicapped.
martian — 2013-12-18T23:44:30-05:00 — #13
12 year old girl in my town helped murder her own family. Killed her little brother herself.
brainspore — 2013-12-18T23:53:24-05:00 — #14
Obviously a very disturbed 12-year-old, but culpability exists on a sliding scale along with freedom and responsibility.
Our society has deemed that a 12-year-old child is not mature enough to care for their self, drive, drink, smoke, vote, consent to sex, etc. even if they demonstrate a level of maturity far beyond their years. If a child can't be treated as an adult for doing good things then I don't see the logic in treating them as an adult for doing bad things.
phasmafelis — 2013-12-19T00:51:34-05:00 — #15
What's your point?
No, really, that must have been terrible and I'm sorry it happened, but nobody here has actually said "teenagers don't commit violent crimes," and the specific law we're talking about doesn't kick in 'til age 13, so this really seems like a total non sequitur.
martian — 2013-12-19T01:07:27-05:00 — #16
miasm — 2013-12-19T01:14:26-05:00 — #17
OMFG thank you!
You know what really irks me about a story concerning children being trialled as adults?
The fucking spelling.
robert_sanders — 2013-12-19T01:15:02-05:00 — #18
I read that Arizona has 3 privately owned facilities that struck a state contract stating they'd be guaranteed 100% occupancy in their facilities. That means the state is obligated to pack people in those cells. Even if there is no one in those beds, the prison still gets paid out of your pocket. Hell, for a privately run institution, they sure don't mind employing welfare like practices. Here's the link. link
miasm — 2013-12-19T01:21:20-05:00 — #19
Without this picture, your argument seems baseless and without conviction.
But this one, timely and important posting of a screen of Tommy-Lee staring in disdain; absolutely and unequivocally strengthens and projects your sad philosophy of retribution and hatred.
actionabe — 2013-12-19T01:24:36-05:00 — #20
It's part of his writing style. It's intentional. It's hardly unusual if you're well read enough.
Now that this major catastrophe has been dealt with, the topic at hand might be discussed.
ETA: Not to imply you're not well-read, didn't mean to come off as pissy. The "enough" is the key qualifier here.
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