doctorow — 2014-04-27T04:11:57-04:00 — #1
matthearn — 2014-04-27T04:35:39-04:00 — #2
This is the sort of crap that makes me ashamed to be British. I live in the South East Kent, and Nigel Farage is rumoured to be considering standing as my local MP in the next general election. I know many otherwise normal, sane people who can't see through the thin veneer of respectability covering UKIP to the toxic hate filled politics underneath. I find this situation to be deeply saddening, I have lost friends arguing against UKIP/BNP politics. I honestly don't know what to do to combat this fear of The Other that these dreadful organisations seem to be fanning.
hurleyef — 2014-04-27T04:47:29-04:00 — #3
They seem to tap into something primal, almost reptilian. I tend to think of it as arguing through emotion, and thus bypassing reason. Truthiness is a good word for it. I also tend to associate these types of politics with the first two circuits of Leary's eight circuit model of consciousness, probably because their fundamental lack of empathy reminds me so much of junkies I've known.
sheifffatman — 2014-04-27T05:10:35-04:00 — #4
The UK Independence Party is a ultra-right-wing ...
Mmm .... the Political Compass puts them as about as far right economically as the Tories, and a bit more authoritarian than them (but less so than Labour), based on 2010 general-election manifestoes -- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010.
that's sucking up disaffected Tory voters in bulk
More true now, but originally they had more ex-Labour voters then ex-Tory ones: http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=12194.
None of which undermines the central point: UKIP do seem to have a larger number of unpleasant, bigoted nutters (or, at least, outspoken, unpleasant, bigoted nutters) than the other parties.
miasm — 2014-04-27T05:36:06-04:00 — #5
This is not a negative thing that has happened to the UKIP.
The vast majority of it's supporters are disaffected Tories.
The Tories weren't racist and cloistered enough for these Anti-European citizens.
These thoughtful and upstanding, responsible adults who have wrestled every day of their lives with both being racist and not being racist.
They have found their party.
miasm — 2014-04-27T05:55:23-04:00 — #6
You almost always can't do anything in person. I'm sorry. I'm in the same boat. It sucks.
The only thing that will change their minds is the thing that made it in the first place. They would have to perceive everyone else of that set changing their minds and perhaps be more ready to change theirs.
Just be prepared to act as if they never really felt that way anyway in order not to hurt their feelings. Which I'm imagining you were already hurting by arguing this point with them. Like I said, it sucks.
danegeld — 2014-04-27T05:55:43-04:00 — #7
The most bizarre thing is that I work with an Iranian who tells me in all seriousness about why he voted for UKIP last time and intends to do so again.
nojaboja — 2014-04-27T05:59:45-04:00 — #8
How about starting with lobbying the BBC, who for the past year have provided a platform for this monstrosity? Nigel Farrage has been having a love in with the BBC completely unjustified by UKIPs electoral success. The Greens who have an actual active MP get no air time--while UKIP without a single elected MP are paraded around the airways.
UKIP is a monster created by the lazy lot at the BBC. Who over the past year have consistently failed to report on stories of real political importance such as the NHS or Campaigning Bill or the eroding of basic Civil Liberties or or or
nojaboja — 2014-04-27T06:01:35-04:00 — #9
The BBC is obliged to be politically neutral--and they clearly haven't been on UKIP, start with them.
miasm — 2014-04-27T06:03:53-04:00 — #10
I mean, face to face with an affected UKIP quasi-racist.
nojaboja — 2014-04-27T06:19:04-04:00 — #11
Oh and one other thing. It is time for the British people to either start getting used to Europe (which has done more for Civil Liberties in this country over the past decade than Westminster) or just get out of it and live with the consequences--continue to pretend they are at the helm of some powerful Empire. See where that gets them.
As a tax paying EU national living in the UK along with an estimate 2.34m other EU citizens... http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9025-11e3-a776-00144feab7de.html#ixzz3051hpUG0.
I am so fed up with the English national sport of EU bashing ingrained in the local psyche (just as the love of football) and wish nothing more on to those who have brought Farrage upon themselves to have to live with the consequences. Try to function as an Island with closed borders in a globalised world and see where that gets you.
fuzzyfungus — 2014-04-27T06:26:07-04:00 — #12
Does he not quite grasp that he is one of the degenerate subhumans sullying the purity of the country, or is there somebody even lower on the ladder he wants to kick?
nojaboja — 2014-04-27T06:44:09-04:00 — #13
My suggestion would be:
Like you would deal with any bully?
Don't be a bystander.
Name things by their name.
Build a support network.
I wish the Labour Party would do at least one of these things. Even Labour MEP candidates are too embarrassed to mention the E word. Of course you might loose some acquaintances on the way.
danegeld — 2014-04-27T06:46:57-04:00 — #14
First, he's obviously not any of those things, secondly ... I guess he must be confused.
fuzzyfungus — 2014-04-27T06:54:16-04:00 — #15
I'm not saying he is; but he is voting for people who say he is, which seems like a very odd strategy.
james_woolfende — 2014-04-27T07:02:16-04:00 — #16
This is only news because of how batshit crazy it make this UKIP guy sound. As for UKIP and the BBC, well it make easy TV, easy lifting.
jonbly — 2014-04-27T07:03:21-04:00 — #17
As often happens, the quote isn't as bad in context. (Not good... just not as bad).
UKIP are doing well (despite an appalling image) because they're the only party with a clear anti-EU stance. We've got one smaller party pro-EU, and the two big ones are both sitting on the fence. For people who don't want to be in the EU, there's only one option.
danegeld — 2014-04-27T07:13:37-04:00 — #18
I think at least parts of the BBC are trying to expose Farage and UKIP for what it is:
Here is Farage being mercilessly ridiculed on BBC
Here is Farage being called out for hipocracy
purplecat — 2014-04-27T07:24:35-04:00 — #19
If you look at their policies, they really are an ultra-capitalist authoritarian, hark back to the 1950s party.Of course, looking at their actual policies is difficult, since they completely disowned the last set and haven't quite come up with a new one yet. But a party whose spokespeople who come out with things like the the one above- plus the usual set of craziness such as "Climate change doesn't exist", "Over-regulation of the banks caused the recession", "Women should spend more time cleaning behind their fridges" and "All muslims should be asked to sign loyalty pledges" gives you an idea where they're coming from. On the political compass, they're heading straight for that top right corner.
Of course, the reason why this is gaining so much traction in certain parts of the UK is that these views are ripped straight from the pages of some UK newspapers. The Express and the Mail, and to a lesser extent, the Sun, the Times and the Telegraph (Yes, that's right- the newspapers owned by Rupert Murdoch are not the worst) have been banging on the drum of being anti-immigration ever since about 2001, when it became one of the few issues that the ruling,nominally centre-left Labour party were vulnerable on. And they've kept going all the time since then, providing a backdrop for the rise of UKIP, and worse.
jsroberts — 2014-04-27T07:33:43-04:00 — #20
Someone should make an informational leaflet explaining that you have a right to hold opinions, but that if you freely publish offensive statements online, it doesn't take the secret police to read and criticize them. Also: if an anti-immigration party fields a racist candidate, some criticism of their public statements may carry over to that party.
Simple stuff, but it's new to some people.
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