If ever there was a classic example of gender privilege, this is it. As a man, I can call bullshit on this sort of creepy stalker behaviour, and though I may be ignored, I don’t stand to be assaulted. That’s called privilege.
So much #Gamer angst is wrapped up in the sexual frustration of boys who can’t talk to girls. If these boys could talk to other boys about this stuff, if creating safe space were even an option, women wouldn’t need to be so guarded, and #notallmen might have a chance to show off how evolved they are. Instead, it’s a war zone, and public space goes to the lowest common denominator.
So, I have to kind of wonder, what’s the point of posting this, or, at least, the point of having a discussion thread on it? I mean, I guess I can see the idea that it’s good to not have this swept under the rug, but, what use is a discussion thread on it? It seems like this horse has been dead a while, and it’s still being kicked.
What’s happening here is despicable. Anyone disagreeing with that, even in some small detail, will be shouted down, usually for good reason. Anyone talking about tangental topics will be off-topic, and moved… So, What really is the potential for dialog? What points of legitimate, civil debate are there related to this? And barring civil debate, why open another cesspool of uncivil “debate”?
Stay and find out? Just because you can’t think of any doesn’t mean someone else can’t find something productive to say on the topic.
Frankly, I don’t think you’d understand if you were told.
He might understand, if he was verbally harassed every time he walked down the street.
Actually is about ethics in game journalism.
What, the problem seems insurmountable so just ignore it? That’s not going to solve anything. This might not solve anything either, but at least it not just a shrugging of shoulders.
One of the things that upsets me about this is that I don’t think I can do anything about it. Sure, I can claim I’m one of the good guys and I can not add to the problem (I hope), but what can I do?
Well, that’s kind of what I mean. It basically IS just a shrugging of shoulders. I’ve not only never dreamed of catcalling anyone, male or female, I can’t say as I’ve ever witnessed it, never having been in New York, or LA. Lived in Chicago for a few months, and, never noticed it there, but, perhaps I simply missed it. In any event, I don’t think I’m in a position to stop it, even if I were.
I’ve definitely seen threats and such on Youtube threads, I’m not really a Twitter person, but, I’m sure I could find them if I signed up for that, but, again, what would I personally DO about it? Just start going flag crazy? I presume Youtube has a flag function, an assume twitter does too but, that strikes me as pretty feeble, and, there’s scores of people who look at these sorts of videos regularly who would probably be in a better position to police them.
So, again, what good does another thread like this do? More piling on #GG? Jokes about game journalism? How is that even on topic, let alone useful to some discussion of what this woman filmed, or is experiencing as a result? I’m putting forth honest questions here about when it’s useful to even have a thread, and I get condescending, insulting remarks from one of the editors. But what’s wrong with asking just what the point is of another thread? More mud slung about, or, is there some actual useful action to be done here? Or some gray area to tease out the connotations of? I’m not seeing much of either, and it bums me out.
I hope I’m one of the good guys too (despite my user name) and the one thing I have done is send this article to a few male buddies with a note saying how creepy/disturbing/wrong this behavior is by men. Oh and now she’s getting death threats, that’s just fucked.
Continue to not be part of the problem, and call out people who are part of the problem. We can’t make people think different but we can make them behave different by pressuring them as a society. When a thing becomes unacceptable people either stop doing it or get thrown out of the club, and as inherently social creatures very few of us want to be out of the club.
Indirectly, it might. Keep raising the profile of stuff like this, make sure it doesn’t become normalised, call people out on this sort of thing when they do it. Make it socially unacceptable, on a level with shitting your pants in public.
It won’t ever completely go away, there’s always people who do vile things in public. But by standing up, speaking out and not just tacitly accepting it, we can reduce it and make life better for half of the population.
A lot of that video was clearly ugly.
It was slightly undermined by the incidents that sounded like the attempts to strike up a conversation that any person walking down the street will get from a homeless guy right before they ask whether you have any change on you.
She was walking quickly down the street. What, should she have been hunched over and trying to minimize herself as much as possible?
Yeah. “Perhaps.” (Sheesh.) Your implicitly sneering doubt from an obliviously privileged position of oppressed experienced is duly noted.
I suspect the video IS worth reposting – here and in many places where men will see and maybe even watch it – because they have no idea how very, very often a woman walking around minding her own business can have male desire aggressively shoved in her face like that.
As for the further harrassment, maybe that too could be lessened over time by exposure (such as this BB post, for which I am grateful), and by men who are thereby that much more encouraged to tell other men that they really should stop acting like dogs. That they’re being total fucking assholes when they won’t let women simply mind their own business.
Pretty eye-opening to me. Out at a nightclub or at a bar “dressed to impress” is one thing, but this is pretty ridiculous. She was dressed conservatively, doing her own thing – can’t believe she was literally stalked on more than one occasion throughout the day. Dudes like this make things way more difficult for not only women (obviously) but also nicer guys (like me!)
For those with white skin who don’t understand, try living in China for a while and see how much having “Hello!!!” followed by a derisive laugh addressed to your back multiple times a day gets to you. It sounds harmless, but it’s ill mannered and annoying enough to really, really rankle after a while. Much of the behaviour in that video is considerably worse.
You’re right, she was clearly asking for it and if she didn’t want to be sexually harassed, she should have worn a burka.
WTF? Not sneering at all. And I’m not sure at ALL what you are going for with “Privileged position of oppressed experience”. I’m responding to a call to speak up when things like this happen. Well, if I’ve not seen them happen, regardless of WHY that is, I’m not really in a position to speak up. As I said, I didn’t live in Chicago long, and I was working as a grunt in a theater, so, long hours, and, not much time outside to see the city. If it happened around me, I was probably sleep walking at the time. But you’ve just assumed privilged indifference on my part. How is that any way to have any kind of civil discussion?
As I noted, I can sort of see the point of it being posted, just, not having yet another discussion thread of gamer gate shit throwing and comments about “journalism ethics”.
The social disadvantage of not being in the club however depends on the resulting social isolation. If too many get kicked out to make their own club(s), the measure loses efficiency and can even make things worse if the resulting alternative clubs are running under worse or no rules.
In atomized alienated society where there aren’t many bonds between unrelated people left, there may even be no clubs worth speaking about to kick others out of.
