“Stop it! You’re going to start a howl!”
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In all seriousness, don’t tell the cops you have money if you get pulled over with it, or you probably will never see it again.
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From Jerry Pournelle’s doctoral dissertation.
It’s not a given that the state is inherently evil-- a proper state is a useful instrument for liberating the individual from less representative and less responsive tyrannies.
I think it’s all gone downhill ever since the US strayed from what I call the “shitload of money” standard.
If you committed a serious crime, the fine used to be $10,000. And if you withdrew $10,000 in cash, the IRS was notified. 'Fair" is “Fair”.
Somehow, when all those fines were raised to $100,000 is some “omnibus” crime bill, they neglected to raise the reporting limit.
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Lovely. A new twist on Godwining, utilizing Ayn Rand, a significantly less influential nutjob than Hitler. Why not cut to the chase next time, and simply invoke Der Fuhrer?
Did Orwell discuss paying in cash?
Because his value system was more consistent?
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I used to think Cashless was awesome. Hey we’re getting closer to star trek. We could use some kind of social score like whuffi to- Oh… crap that means something/someone has to track all that and oh hey guess what? I don’t trust anyone with that kind of power to not see that as a wet dream on ways they could abuse it to promote friends, fawners, and bootlickers… because that is generally how it goes when sociopaths are in charge.
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I did that once and I got the same kind of reaction, which was interesting. I had some money in one account but wanted to use it in another account right away, so I went to the bank, got the cash, drove four miles across town and deposited it to the other account, with the whole thing done in under an hour. I wanted it to happen under my control, and I wanted the feeling that it was under my control. When I said I wanted $16,000 in cash the teller stopped, jolted out of her routine, and gave me a long assessing look and warned me that amounts above 10k had to be reported. I said that’s fine, I just needed it right now, and she probably read me as unconcerned, which I was. Managers were consulted but I walked out with my cash.
That was my first encounter with the idea that there’s something sketchy or even wrong about using cash. Like the idea that, as in some U.S. states, you could be compelled to produce ID just because an officer of the law asks you for it, it’s not an idea that would’ve occurred to me on my own.
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Here is the paper:
http://cmepr.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tekin-dp8402.pdf
Abstract:
“It has been long recognized that cash plays a critical role in fueling street crime due to its liquidity and transactional anonymity. In poor neighborhoods where street offenses are concentrated, a significant source of circulating cash stems from public assistance or welfare payments. In the 1990s, the Federal government mandated individual states to convert the delivery of their welfare benefits from paper checks to an Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT) system, whereby recipients received and expended their funds through debit cards. In this paper, we examine whether the reduction in the circulation of cash on the streets associated with EBT implementation had an effect on crime. To address this question, we exploit the variation in the timing of the EBT implementation across Missouri counties. Our results indicate that the EBT program had a negative and significant effect on the overall crime rate as well as burglary, assault, and larceny. According to our point estimates, the overall crime rate decreased by 9.8 percent in response to the EBT program. We also find a negative effect on arrests, especially those associated with non-drug offenses. EBT implementation had no effect on rape, a crime that is unlikely to be motivated by the acquisition of cash. Interestingly, the significant drop in crime in the United States over several decades has coincided with a period of steady decline in the proportion of financial transactions involving cash. In that sense, our findings serve as a fresh contribution to the important debate surrounding the factors underpinning the great American crime decline.”
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You are correct (I used to work as a lawyer in the MJ industry in Colorado); there were/are some local banks that would look the other way, there were/are also businesses that get by (for a time at least) by lying to the bank about what they do. There is (or was) even a company that will literally “launder” MJ money, i.e. wash off the smell, so that you can take it to the bank without raising too many eyebrows.
There was an attorney trying to set up a Marijuana-business credit union; they got a charter from the state, but last I heard their application for a master account with the Federal Reserve was stuck in some kind of bureaucratic limbo.
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If pot businesses are legal, either the state needs to setup a bank for them, or the banking law in the state needs to allow them.
I’m guessing that the only way it’s going to happen is in court. Possibly legislatively in a long time. Political will and all that.
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Eh, as a professional gambler, I pull that kind of cash out of my bank all the time. It’s rarely an issue. Sometimes if I’m at a smaller branch they’ll tell me they can’t provide over $5000 without advance notice, so I go to multiple branches. When I used a small credit union instead of Bank of America they freaked out a little more, but again I think that was them trying to manage their cash supply rather than worrying about my intentions.
I’ve purchased two vehicles from dealers in the last five years, both for $15k+ cash. Also not a problem. I once deposited $80k cash at a bank branch I’d never visited before. They didn’t even blink. I try to deposit cash before taking flights, but on the one occasion I didn’t and got searched, the TSA drones didn’t hassle me over the $25k cash I had on me.
I worry more about cops than anyone else (including criminals), but no trouble so far. I’m sure being white helps.
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Oh, yeah-- now I remember-- the most cynical “benefit” to cash replacements is that banks can get rich on fixed transactional fees.
More abstractly, this sort of cynicism translates into a larger criticism of Sunstein’s basic assumptions.
If the state is both liberal and democratic it can serve a useful purpose for its citizenry. If the state is controlled by elite interests (such as banks), the usefulness of the state to the average member of society, and in particular to the “underclasses”, diminishes significantly.
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Or anyone who conducts business outside of banking hours… or in rural areas far from the nearest bank… just to cite two examples that I’m personally familiar with. I’m selling a couple of cars for $5k each at the moment. If someone wants to come buy one of them on a Saturday afternoon they’d better bring cash, as I can’t accept credit cards and I’m not accepting a cashier’s check without calling the bank to verify it.
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I am sure many people are self medicating with a variety of drugs. I can remember what mental health provision was like when I was at university, and what it became under Thatcher. But what did the mad old bag know about mental health? She self-medicated against the sheer horror of being Margaret Thatcher with increasing doses of whisky until they had to get rid of her.
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I try not to think about it too much, because it makes me mad, but while there are upsides to these types of systems, one huge downside is it allows the banks/payment processing companies to get rich by leeching (pun intended) small amounts of money from large numbers of poor people. A diabolical exploitation of a collective action problem… it’s really, really f–ked up actually because the government is forcing poor people to pay an unaccountable third party in order to get access to money that they are legally entitled to…
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Colorado law is not the problem. The problem, as I understand it, is that even if the state allows the bank to be set up, it still needs something called a “master account” from the Federal Reserve in order to do business with other banks, and generally be useful to its customers. A state-charted, but federally-unapproved bank might be OK as far as allowing stores to deposit cash, but probably wouldn’t let them accept credit card payments, checks etc. or for businesses to buy goods and services from companies in another state. But I don’t really understand banking law that well, maybe someone who knows more than me can comment on this issue?
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Kudos for resisting the obvious and facetious answer. Hookers and blow.
In addition to the cats of course.
Not a reply:
Since 1976 money is a form of constitutionally protected free speech. True?
Inhibiting speech is not permitted to which branches of government?
Having not enough cash in rotation means that in case of a relatively minor apocalypse, like a zombie outbreak, a Drumpf presidency or a wave of black death, society has to regress all the way to straight bartering in trade.
