Ooh! Maybe garbage collecting could be someone’s performance art that is shared with the community. I did lots of scrounging and dumpster diving when I was an art student. Before that I worked retail with a guy who quit that job to become a garbage collector because it paid a lot better, though not because it was a way to nourish his soul and express himself.
When I lived in South Florida many years ago I used to race out the night before and the morning of “big” trash pickup day to look for old furniture, scrap lumber, and tree trunks and large limbs that people had cut down and were throwing away. Many of these trees flourished in tropical climates and wouldn’t grow in most other parts of the country.
I made pretty good money for awhile selling people’s garbage wood to woodworkers in parts of the country where those woods didn’t grow. I also sold wood items locally that I’d made myself.
But yeah, if I were younger and healthier and living in that kind of society I’d definitely take a part time garbage man gig, as long as I was allowed to go through it and keep anything I wanted or could sell.
Well, that’s fine, if you can afford to buy the automated home in the first place, right? Do you think that stuff, when developed to the, I guess, Star Trek point, is just going to be provided to us or do you think it will be sold as a commodity like everything else in our world? The question is how do we get to a post-scarcity economy in the first place, because that’s really what you’re talking about. Scarcity isn’t just about how many goods exist, but about how many people have access to them readily. Lots of people on this planet just don’t, because of their lack $$$.
My point isn’t that I dislike a post-scarcity utopia you speak of, but how do we politically and economically get there.
How do we get there, when the goods produced by automation still cost the end consumer. Honestly, there are so many goods in the world for everyone already. The problem is distribution, not these goods existing.
Sure, but how much is that going to cost? Do you live in or near a large city? What are the rents right now? How much have they gone up since the 1980s? The cost of living has increased for many people, not decreased. And in many fields, pay has stagnated since the 70s.
Why do you think automation will stop at the business level when all indications is those automations have much larger market at the personnel level?
And BTW asking for rent level increases since 1970, amongst other wildly specific and not germane questions and proclaiming self sufficient living a utopia are signs of troll
No, they aren’t. Rent increases in cities are completely relevant to the topic at hand. It’s a generally well known fact that the cost of living has increased… I didn’t ask for stats and numbers from you, just a general acknowledgement that it exists as a historical fact.
My question is how do you afford the means of automation when paying the rent is a problem?
I think the only sensible way to make people able to pay rent is to institute a basic living allowance and government sponsored housing. That way everyone has enough money to eat, clothe, and entertain themselves. You can get a room in the bad place in town for free but if you some space or want to live somewhere nice or have nicer things, you have to work or barter for it.
How the government pays for it, I have no idea. I can sorta see big corps sponsoring housing projects in exchange for a monopoly of goods and services in an area being more likely to happen then a benevolent big sister government, but stranger things have happened.
Well, except that land, especially in cities are owned, generally speaking by private investors or landholders, right? Not much land is held by cities, counties, or states, and the land they do own tends to be public spaces like court houses, city halls, etc. At least here, public housing is now privately owned and the city mandates that some apartments, etc, are set aside for low income residents… unfortunately, not near enough to cover the need. Most working class people are getting pushed out of downtown, etc.
I’ve been struggling with the whole notion of a guranteed income. Is it still a problem as long as we have a consumption based economy? I think it might be
This has sort of already happened, with company towns:
I grew up in a neighborhood that used to be one (it wasn’t when I lived there as a kid). The cotton mill down the street had originally built the houses, the school, and the shops (where you could by everything in company script) and most people who lived/worked there, ended up in debt to the company. As long as a corporation is based on making a profit, much of what they do is going to be focused on that.
I dunno… I’m just having a hard time seeing how, given the current structure of the global economy which still depends on people selling their labor in exchange for a living (and everything has been commoditized in the market), automation, whether large or small scale, works in a way that lifts the working poor. But I’m happy to entertain the notion that it’s a possibility and it could work, I’d just like to see the arguments for how that happens, frankly.
Sorry my reply was a bit dickish…Not every one will get the opportunity on the initial rollout, changes will have to come just like all major changes, in phases. Just like how all major technological changes occur, like the internet, phone, tv etc. not everyone wants or see the value at the beginning but overtime they become ubiquitous and legislated right to access. I think this is the disconnect is the same as I had with Mindysan33, no one has these answers but we will discover them as the process gains acceptance and asking questions without answers about points not made is a bit trollish in this circumstance.
What is trollish about raising issues in a discussion? If you don’t have an answer for something, it’s okay to say, “Good question; I don’t know!” instead of calling names.
