Clinton apologizes after calling Trump's bigoted supporters "deplorable"


#155

Pretty much all the cognitive dissonance you are using to convince yourself Clinton isn’t so bad, is exactly the same thing some Trump supporters are doing.

See, everyone is more alike than one realizes.

And another example.

I am not saying everything dumped on Clinton she deserves. I am not saying she hasn’t been targeted unfairly. I am not even saying Trump isn’t a horrible person. But there has been enough of her actions that I know left wing people who deplore her. Some enough so to vote Green Party. I mean, you did watch some of Bernie’s speeches? Obama’s speeches from 2008? It isn’t like the only people criticizing her are part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

Tell me though, can you think of Republican politicians or supporters with allegations and rumors swirling around them. Even though nothing has ever officially “stuck”, do you still think they are completely innocent of what they are accused of? Heck Trump has been accused of things that didn’t stick, are you saying in your heart of hearts you feel he was unjustly accused, or did he just manage to get away with it? Why would that be different for Clinton or any other politician?


This section isn’t directed at anyone, but general statement:

Don’t act like your shit doesn’t stink.

The current political climate is the biggest shit show in my limited living memory. You want it to get worse? Keep thinking that who ever votes R or D is automatically deplorable. Continue divisive thinking and separation into two exclusive camps. Automatically assume you know how a person thinks and acts because they may have voiced support for one thing or another. Once everyone is neatly labeled, you can join in with your “team”, talk about how horrible the other side is. No need to exchange meaningful opinions or ideas, just retreat to the safe space of like minded folks and trade half truth memes about how horrible the other side is. Hey, it works for ignorant racists rednecks, so it may as well work for you too!

Or maybe work on being better and not turn into what you hate.


I Can Tolerate Everything Except the Outgroup
#156

Should start at 1:03


#157

Clinton being a crappy candidate unpopular in the general is a bit of a moot point. That’s who the good people of the Dem primaries wanted so it’s who we’re stuck with.


#158

No! Not directed at you. Just saying it out loud for everybody.


#159


#160

What if I don’t believe America is in two exclusive camps, but a varied spectrum of different interests and opinions, of people who may be willing to compromise on one thing or another and often vote the options they can find accordingly – but also think that throwing your enthusiastic support behind someone who’s whole campaign has been built on promises of stamping down on minorities means you have deplorable views?

Is that allowed? Or do I have to pretend supporting the R and D party are always morally equivalent, no matter how much the Overton window shifts, no matter if one is taken over by an openly xenophobic and misogynist group? Do I have to put their equality first, or can I start with equality of people and see how the parties treat them?

Because that’s the thing with this two camp rhetoric, is it erases so many of the people in question. Nobody wants Ds to hate Rs and Rs to hate Ds, so we should try to respect each other’s views! And if that means normalizing hatred of Mexicans, of Muslims, of blacks, of women, of gays and trans*, well, now you’re a bigot for calling that out. I’m not having it.


:game_die: Would You LIKE to Play a Game? :video_game:
I Can Tolerate Everything Except the Outgroup
#161

He did, he just didn’t call it that. I do think that’s the reason he’s getting that demographic’s support.

But of course, as we all know, to be a white supremacist, one has to say one is a white supremacist… at least if you believe some of the apologists for Trump.

I’m in no way happy about Clinton, she has plenty of baggage I’m not happy about. But garnering support from actual people who are white supremcists isn’t one of them. If she did, she’d lose enough voters to not be able to win. [quote=“Mister44, post:155, topic:85071”]
See, everyone is more alike than one realizes.
[/quote]

David Duke backs Trump. NOt the same at all.

There is not being perfect and then there is a world view that dehumanizes large swaths of humanity and has been responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions of people. If calling out white supremacy makes me the equivalent of Trump and his supporters… well, no, it doesn’t actually.


#162

I cant work out which half she was talking about.


#163

Fred Clark over at Slacktivist has a thoughtful essay on the subject worth reading: Every word of this is true, urgent, and necessary.

He comes at things from the not-hateful side of Evangelical Christianity, and his arguments are a compelling reminder that religion doesn’t have to be about intolerance and fear.

Example section:

What about those other Trump supporters? The ones Hillary clearly and generously distinguished as wholly separate from the “basket of deplorables”? They, too, have just been given the very thing they’ve been asking for. They’ve long insisted that it’s not fair to lump them in with Bannon and Milo and Roger Stone and all the Confederate-flag-waving bigots shouting hateful things and threatening violence. They’ve spent months pleading not to be categorized as bigots just because they’re supporting Donald Trump.

And here is herself, Hillary Clinton, explicitly agreeing with them and granting them exactly the exemption they’ve been demanding.

So those folks — the other basket — also have no basis, no cause, for taking honest offense.


#164

It’s been some time since I knew my logical fallacies as well as I probably should, and I wish I could more correctly cite the reason your post makes no sense whatsoever. You are essentially defending your irrational emotional state by pointing into the crowd and saying they are being irrational too, when it’s irrelevant to someone challenging your “where there’s smoke…” assertions.

The problem is, as it’s been pointed out, is that Trump’s campaign has all the flaws (including the ones levied against Clinton) that normally sink a campaign but he has been able to ride a fan base this far because it got combined with fanatics. Trump isn’t rumored to be associated with open racists, he has always had a direct connection to them since before his candidacy began. Trump isn’t rumored to have relied on family money for his lifestyle, it’s been a fairly well documented thing since the 80s. Trump isn’t rumored to be changing is political stances on a whim, he’s literally reversed his positions within hours consistently. Trump isn’t rumored to be corrupt, he bragged about politicians owing him favors because he donated to their campaigns. The “smoke” in this case nearly always discovers fire.

On the other side, Clinton has had her opponents invest millions of taxpayer funds in finding the “smoke” with no sign of fire. She’s had foreign interests trying to hack her for years, and dump what they found only to reveal non of the fire from the “smoke” of fixing the primaries (in fact, a lot of people are waiting for that big one to drop expecting it will happen at the most opportune time for Trump). There is a private organization that has been funded for decades to try to find fire from the “smoke,” only to get additional investments for some reason - it’s honestly not very clear why. The only thing we do know is that the Clintons have been important figures in the DNC for decades, and they have had success despite a level of scrutiny that no politician in recent US history has had.

The only reason this election has been a fight at all is because Hillary isn’t immediately likable as a person and her campaigns are always terrible.


#165

imperial or metric binders?


#166

Did you read the profile on her head data scientist? They are an amazingly well oiled campaign.


#167

Yes, just crushing Trump.

Atheist, Democrat, Jewish, socialist – all appeal greatly to the deplorable republican demographic.


#168

Yeah, no. You used the phrase “cognitive dissonance”, but here’s another one for you: false equivalence. I’ll certainly have a discussion about Clinton’s failings, ways I wish she were different, her screw-ups. Obama too (I despise the drone program and think it’s unethical and should be stopped.) But Trump is a racist and a bigot and a xenophobe. He’s supported by racists and bigots and xenophobes. He re-tweets Alt-Right White Supremacists. To pretend they’re on the same level, or that being somewhat skeptical of the 25 years of deliberate Right Wing attacks on the Clintons is the same as looking the other way on the unprecedented way in which Trump has brought white supremacist ideas into the mainstream is absurd.

If those friends of yours live in a swing state, they’re idiots. I get that they want to throw a tantrum about not getting everything they want right away, but they’re putting their desire to feel this way over the safety of people of color, Muslims, immigrants from all walks of life, and the LGBTQ community. Not with the Supreme Court on the line and a burning dumpster fire of a human being on the threshold of the White House. Ask the UK how well protest votes went for Brexit.


#169

While I general vote leftist, third party, because my state has in recent years been safe for the republicans, this year, it might not be the case. I will not vote to allow Trump into office, as much as it pains me to vote for someone I disagree with so much.


:game_die: Would You LIKE to Play a Game? :video_game:
#170

The people who wouldn’t vote for Bernie because he’s an atheist Jewish socialist would vote Republican even if Christ himself was running on the D ticket.


#171

Nobody can say what a Bernie v. Trump race would look like at this point. I’d imagine his numbers wouldn’t be much different, since he’s not a great campaigner, he’s a self-described Socialist which hits him with a lot more people than just Republicans, there was a notable contingent of Dems. who disliked him during the Primary, and he’s Jewish, which is really an unknown factor. Early polling is a virtually meaningless metric, so we can all play the “what if” game to our heart’s content, but it’s all just pointless fantasies at this point since he lost.


#172

Well I better redo my resume. Playing “what if” games is highlighted throughout.


#173

Too soon!


#174

My 15 yo daughter told me that some girl in her school posted on instagram a picture of herself and maybe another girl in a pro-trump shirt. What proceeded was a rather nasty 100+ comment exchange between pro trump and pro hillary students including comments to a gay kid to “loosen his jeans, fairy” and “I hope you die” to another. Unclear who those posters supported but it’s irrelevant. “People I know are saying terrible things!” she lamented. It starts early, apparently.

Well one kid in her grade has decided to organize the democrat leaning students to man phone banks. Our state isn’t a gimme for Hillary, so this is a great thing for democrat leaning students to do.

Point is at this point, if you feel strongly the best thing you can do with your time isn’t argue on instagram. It’s to do something. Posting shit on facebook doesn’t count.