Maybe not the best choice of words in the context
If you look at the sun long enough you wonât see anything at all. That doesnât mean itâs not still shining.
2 Likes
Yes, but the heading of the article claims that thereâs a connection between the treatment he got and the fact that heâs âbrown and Hinduâ. Actually it looks like they followed the protocol in this case (if we ignore the part where they went to his home, took down the picture, etc., which sounds like BS). He opted out of the high-tech screening, but the bomb swabbing tested positive, so they tried to figure out why, asked what he was doing, etc. Doesnât seem any different than standard operating procedure. Actually the fact that Boing Boing is crying âracismâ here says more about the worldview of BB than the facts in the case.
Youâd have to be pretty naive to assume otherwise. How often do you suppose white Christians get grilled on the specifics of their religious beliefs? Do you think the FBI would be likely to call in a special interrogator to ask questions in Italian if they found out a passenger was Catholic?
All depends. Iâve worked for federal agencies before and they are PC to the max. On one occasion I recall, one of my subordinates had clearly faked his salary sheets, but when I reported this to my superiors, they told me we were not allowed to fire him because he was black and would pull the race card. Instead I was told to submit the salary papers for âreviewâ, a process that would take years, in effect firing him without firing him. This is a familiar dynamic to people who have worked in federal agencies: theyâre afraid to call out clear misbehavior for fear of being labeled a âracistâ.
You can see a similar dynamic if you look into the history of the Fort Hood shooter. He made numerous statements indicating that he sympathized with radical Islam and was a definite threat to the country, but the military authorities were afraid to investigate this due to fears of infringing on his civil rights.
Similarly, the Russian authorities warned the FBI about one of the Boston bombers being linked to radical mosques in the Caucasus region, and the FBI was not allowed to investigate this due to Obamaâs declaration that there is no link between terrorism and radical Islam (never mind that there is a clear and definite link).
Actually it would be smart for the US to use profiling, thatâs what Israel does and it has kept their country safe without the sorts of police state apparatus weâre subject to, but under federal law profiling is illegal.
1 Like
OK, two quick thoughts:
- Yeah, Israel. Thatâs a shining example of a safe, free, secular, equitable society that never has problems with terrorism right there. Whenever I try to think of countries that never have to worry about terrorist attacks and guarantee the same civil liberties for all citizens without having to resort to things like police checkpoints then âIsraelâ is right there at the top of the list.
- You could have skipped right to the âletâs institute racial profilingâ bit and we could have known to ignore everything else you had to say right off the bat.
5 Likes
Oh, the TSA is just annoyed by happy train lovers like me who have added âTSA Freeâ to the list of awesome things about taking the train instead of planes.
-
Israel still faces the terrorist threat, but has done remarkably well at defending itself. And despite all the criticisms of it, it has far and away the best human rights record in the Middle East, by a long shot.
-
I never recommended using racial profiling. But in fact weâre at the opposite extreme, where law enforcement agencies have to ignore clear evidence of threats to the countryâs security, in order to not appear to be âracistâ. The above article is a good example of this; thereâs 0 evidence of racist treatment in this case (if there were, heâd been filing a federal lawsuit), but people are insisting itâs racist because of the guyâs race. That says more about the authorâs worldview than about the facts of the case at hand.
1 Like
Your exact words were
Actually it would be smart for the US to use profiling, thatâs what
Israel doesâŚ
Israel-style profiling would discriminate based on perceived nationality, ethnicity or religion. All of which are forbidden in this country for good reason.
The above article is a good example of this; thereâs 0 evidence of
racist treatment in this case (if there were, heâd been filing a
federal lawsuit), but people are insisting itâs racist because of the
guyâs race.
Absence of a lawsuit is not evidence of absence of racism, especially when the TSA has such broad authority that theyâre almost impossible to sue.
You very carefully avoided answering my earlier questions about how likely some aspects of his treatment would have been for a white Christian guy (i.e. asking how observant he was of his religion, assuming English wasnât his native language because of his ethnic background, etc). No reasonable person could hearâŚ
âYouâll have to understand, when a person of your⌠background walks
into here, travelling alone, and sets off our alarms, people start to
get a bit nervous.â
âŚwithout concluding his appearance or religion played some part in his treatment. The only way to dismiss the profiling claims would be to assume the author made up key parts of the story.
4 Likes
Clearly you have a different definition of terrorism and human rights than I do. Israel kills more Palestinians than Palestine kills Israelis and Palestine has never (to my knowledge at any rate) cut off food and humanitarian supplies to Israel.
Sure, Israel doesnât want its people killed and they have a reasonable right to try to avoid that happening. But not by slaughtering other people, blockading food and humanitarian aid, or illegally occupying Palestinian territory.
1 Like
I was thinking in terms of womenâs rights, gay rights, etc. Also if you want to take about racism, you wonât find more racist countries than the ones surrounding Israel, countries where slavery is still practiced, countries where a man can rape his wife legally because she is considered his property, etc. Likewise, Hamas purposefully targets civilians and receives little criticism for this, while Israel goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualties, yet gets all the blame. If the Palestinian Authority went to the same lengths to avoid civilian casualties as does the Israeli Army, it would get the Nobel Peace Prize.
1 Like
I said âprofilingâ, not âracial profilingâ. If someone says they think itâs their religious duty to murder Americans, itâs reasonable to think that theyâre a threat to American citizens. The current absurd rules donât allow this sort of rational and non-discriminatory profiling. Boston and Fort Hood could have been prevented if we allowed this sort of âprofilingâ.
About the âwhite Christian guyâ, youâd need to give more information. A dreadlocked rastafarian (Christian) who happens to be white is likely to get different treatment than a businessman who happens to be Christian. I donât know how unfair this is. Are they being judged by their race or by their (perceived) character? Thatâs one criticism of the current âpolitical correctnessâ movement, itâs completely obsessed with superficial features such as race, as opposed to a personâs actual character.
To put that question back to you, do you think a âwhite Christian guyâ who refused the scanner, and had items that tested positive for the b*mb-making materials, would be investigated? Do you think they would ask where he was going, what he was doing, etc?
I do agree with one thing you say. If the guy is being 100% honest, then there is profiling going on here. Parts of the story scream BS to me, for reasons Iâve suggested. Federal authorities are loathe to mention anything involving a personâs âbackgroundâ or to appear to be behaving in reaction to a personâs race, color, creed, or sex. A more accurate title would be, âDonât fly while brown during Ramadan, even if youâre Hindu, if you plan to refuse the high tech screening and have materials that will test positive for b*mb-making chemicals, because you are going to be investigated all the same.â
And how would you go about profiling which people might believe such a thing without resorting to decisions based on perceived nationality, ethnicity or religion? Would-be terrorists donât generally wear signs around their necks stating "I am a Muslim fundamentalist who believes it is my religious duty to murder Americans." Nor do real-life terrorists usually dress like the stereotypical âjihadist,â in part because they know anyone with a long beard, a turban and desert robes is more likely to be scrutinized by airport security.
To put that question back to you, do you think a âwhite Christian guyâ
who refused the scanner, and had items that tested positive for the
b*mb-making materials, would be investigated?
I most certainly donât think that even a belligerent (let alone compliant) white Christian guy would be treated the same way as the author of this story. For example, they sent in an agent to interrogate him in Hindi when they found out he was Hindu, despite the fact that he was obviously an American. They asked âHow religious are you? Would you describe yourself as âsomewhat religiousâ or âvery religiousâ?â They also spoke ominously about his âbackground.â
3 Likes
Iâll easily buy that he was targeted due to racial profiling, but I donât see anything to suggest Ramadan had anything to do with it. If the goon squad doesnât know the difference between Muslim and Hindu, what are the chances that they even know what Ramadan is? And if they do know, they also know itâs not some traditional âjihad monthâ or anything.
Iâd just like to point out that over the course of this thread you went all the way from ânothing in this story suggests racismâ to âthis story sounds far too racist to be credible.â
2 Likes
If you believe what he says (particularly in the latter part of the story), then there is âracismâ. I donât believe him based on the fact that federal authorities (as well as local law enforcement) tend to be very cautious about bringing anything involving race or creed into their investigations, due to the fact that this makes it likely that they will lose their jobs (since doing so is prohibited under federal law). I think the odds are as follows: 5% he actually was a victim of crooked feds. If they keep behaving in this manner they will be caught. 95% he was treated in a dick-ish manner, like the rest of us, but is embellishing what happened to him and playing the ârace cardâ for his own selfish purposes. He wonât be caught or punished, but will just use this to attract attention and make it look like US authorities are actually targeting colored people or Muslims.
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
