EV owners are shocked that tires wear out

Kentucky’s EV tax went into effect on January 1st. https://drive.ky.gov/Pages/EV-HV-Fee.aspx

I was mildly irked at having to pay $60 extra in taxes for my Prius C gas hybrid that weighs the same or less than similarly sized gas-only vehicles. It adds about 7% to my annual gas costs.

Nothing in the article has anything to do with science. EVs are more dense (a bus is heavier than a car, but not necessarily heavier by it volume) combined with greater torque (electric motors generate more torque compared to an internal combustion engine). Now let us examine how these variables affect tire wear.

Tires are worn by friction degenerating the material over a period of time. Friction force = coefficient of friction multiplied by normal force. Let us assume the coefficient of friction remains constant; that is, each set of tires have equal grip on the surface of the road.

Normal force is mass multiplied by acceleration. We established that the mass of an equivalent sized electrical vehicle is greater than an internal combustion engine. Let us examine the change to the second variable (acceleration).

Acceleration force is equal to the change in velocity over the change in time. Let us assume the change in time is constant between the two types of vehicles, so an EC’s greater torque translates to a relatively greater increase of speed compared to an IC’s vehicles over the same period of time.

I trust most people know that multiplying two larger numbers will equal a larger value compared to two smaller values multiplied together. Thank you Canada for Grade 11 physics as now I can patronize other people by saying science is fun.

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…Except that’s not what normal force is? Even when a car is not accelerating at all, there is still a normal force up from the road. It’s what balances gravity, which otherwise would pull the car down through it. (And it should be clear there is still friction without acceleration too, or you could coast forever.)

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… if that’s not “fair,” how about they pay for global warming with their gasoline taxes instead :thermometer:

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Of course they should pay for that too. It’s not an either/or.

How is fixing things from the consumers down working for plastic waste?

Let’s solve these problems at a systemic level instead of expecting individuals to fix things from the bottom up.

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I had a Renault Zoe for 2 years, did 12,000 miles on country roads in pretty bad condition because this is the UK and the tyres had plenty of tread on them at the end. I had to replace one because it got a nail in it, but that’s a hazard any vehicle faces. I don’t drive like a maniac, though.

To address the issue of road maintenance, tax on fuel is a convenient and fair way to raise the money, but obviously it can’t be done for EVs. Governments are going to have to find a new way of getting the money. One way of doing it would be to cross-reference your mileage as tracked by your navi system and roadside cameras with the size/weight of your car. This could be used for road pricing.

Obviously there’s a privacy concern, but we already relinquish some of our driving privacy to speed cameras, so it’s a matter of degree rather than basic principle. Everyone won’t agree, of course.

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Because roads are a social good for the benefit of the whole society.

(And rail ticket is conceptually equivalent to buying petrol for a road journey.)

Rail also. The key phrase here is “higher share”

The trick, as ever, is agreeing the balance between direct and indirect benefit and how paying for it should vary across that spectrum (let alone finding a mechanism for applying that).

Which is a conundrum. Because you cannot please all users (let alone those who don’t think they are users of such things.)

The Tories in the UK have moved the rail service ever more into ‘the users must pay’ rhetoric, all while subsidising private companies to run it. The result is that fewer and fewer people can afford to use trains, or even find them available for their needs. Guess what? Road use increases disproportionately and now austerity Toryism can’t even ‘afford’ to keep keep the roads in good order. I feel a rant coming on, so I’ll stop here.

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Oh wah, I just priced tires for my 29 year old RV that needs tires every 5 - 7 years no matter how many miles are on them.

Where’s that trump handbook explaining how to falsify loan documents?

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And still no mention of tyre pressure?

I used to easily get through a set of tyres on a motorcycle in 5-6000 miles (not riding furiously or anything), motorcycle tyres are much better now.

A rivian is going to burn through tires because of the acceleration more than weight. The weights not doing it any favors of course! But when I was racing we would easily burn through a set of tires in a weekend and that was a sub-2,000 pound car and way less than 6,000 miles. Driving style has a ton to do with wear.

Also: damn at almost $500 apiece that’s going to be over $2000 with installation. At 6,000 miles that’s $.30/mile just for tires! I certainly hope that the average rivian gets more than 6,000 miles out of a set of tires. I’d be interested to see accelerometer data from the 6k mile rivian. My Volt got about 30k miles out of the last set of tires at $1,110 installed (i usually pick very good tires) so that’s a more reasonable $.037/mile.

Also, Ohio charges me $150 a year additional for plug in hybrid registration. I don’t mind paying my fair share but that’s way more than I would pay driving a purely gas car. I drive about 9,000 miles a year.

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Also, truck tires are usually more expensive than passenger cars. My tundra runs ~$200 per tire, and that’s if I find them on sale. I’ve got ~120K on the odometer, and I’m on my third/fourth set- the OEM ones would have lasted longer, but some jackwagon thought it’d be funny to knife the sidewalls on all four of them one fine evening. :rage:

It’s all about how and where you drive that determines how long the tires last. (I’ve lost more tires to errant road debris than I’ve owned vehicles, and the tire place I use has a ‘road hazard’ warranty which I purchase because it’s worth it.)

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Ohio gas tax is $0.385 / gallon, so it’s in the ballpark of what you would pay. You’re milage may vary.

You know what, you’re right! Assuming 25mpg that would be a bit under $140/yr in taxes at 9,000 miles/year. Of course, a car like the volt gets much better than 25mpg but it’s not as far off as I guessed.

Oof, not worth it.

And those all-terrains wear really fast if they are driven primarily on pavement.

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Right? I can’t figure out what in the hell these people are DOING in their cars. I’ve had my Ioniq 5 for a year, put 21k miles on it and the tires are JUST starting to show signs of wear. At the rate they are going, I expect to get 40-50k out them!

(And just for the record, I’m terrible at bothering to rotate my tires. These four were rotated once!)

6,000 miles for tires is insane, I put around 60,000 to 65,000 miles on my Honda Ridgeline tires.

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I have a three year-old Chevy Bolt with 8,000 miles on it (I don’t commute and only use it for local errands), and because of this article, I went out to see how my tires were wearing. They’re fine. Almost zero wear. I’m a pretty conservative driver though.

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In most states, EV owners pay a yearly fee for roads. Here in Georgia it’s $213 (IIRC), paid for when you renew your car tags. I did the math based on my (low) average yearly miles, and $213 is more than I would pay in gas taxes. We’re also taxed for roads at charging stations now too – double dipping by the state. I wish the rate we paid was based on miles driven, even if some of those miles were not on GA roads.