France imposes "total ban" on mobile phones in schools

And my colleagues who work in university education faculties and who are teaching the next generation of teachers agree with me. So.

Of course they are, because their teachers are failing to make use of those devices, failing to fulfill their potential as the most powerful learning technologies available, and failing to teach them how to use that technology appropriately. Obviously, if you teach 20th century material using 19th century teaching methods, based on 18th century models of learning, your students will find 21st century learning technology to be more compelling. So maybe they stop doing that, and take advantage of that technology by creating a curriculum that incorporates it and demonstrates as a learning tool, rather than banning it.

And they were correct to do so. Learning long division by hand is a waste of time. Learning how to manually solve the quadratic formula is a waste of time. In the time it takes to calculate by hand the two roots of a quadratic, you can download an app that solves that and plots the graph for you, so you can do something actually useful with that result and visualize what it means in a manner that a memorized mathematical process never can. I use math every day, but I don’t do any of it by hand: I use SPSS and Excel and a calculator. Memorizing algorithms doesn’t help you understand anything, and using appropriate tools to solve problems doesn’t prevent the proper teaching of problem solving or critical thinking skills. Indeed, it can promote those things, because if you teach the proper use of ubiquitous powerful tools, you can spend less time uselessly drilling rote memorization, and more time actually interpreting and analyzing results and solutions, and more time learning how to apply core principles – and learning tech – to the solution of new problems. Hand cranking the math, and mindlessly memorizing rote algorithms to solve irrelevant problems, is neither necessary nor sufficient to understanding or using the math.

Sure. Let’s forbid them until they are 18 from ever seeing or using the tools they will be expected to use for their entire adult lives. Hide the calculators and computers and all these other new-fangled learning technologies. (Like books! Why in my day we had to memorize Beowulf!) Or, hey, maybe instead we could teach them how to use those tools properly, just like all the other things we expect adults to be able to do.

But it’s really not. Because a personal phone is a computer than can be used for lessons and research. And for data acquisition. And for calculation. And for writing. And for picture and audio and video recording. And for augmented reality. And for interactive personal responses mid-lesson. And for guided-inquiry active learning activities. And for collaborative knowledge exploration, creation, and sharing. And for communication and engagement with subject experts. And for a hundred other transformative learning activities that mean less time wasted in the pursuit of learning objectives comprising useless memorization, offering more time to develop genuine analytical and creative skills while using the actual knowledge and learning tools that they will use later in life.

Complaints about phones being distractions for students that prevent learning only occur in classrooms where teachers are not using phones as powerful tools to promote learning. Every student already has instant access to more knowledge than any human being before has ever known. Not exploiting that access to transform education is idiotic.

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Because what we want in society is for kids to bump into walls when the power runs out. Put the phones down.

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Okay, you’ve actually convinced me. My lingering concern is: what about those students whose family/parent(s)/guardian(s) can’t afford to buy a smartphone for them?

[Edit] Addendum for expansion and clarity: I think you make a good case for each student having a personal, mobile computing device in the classroom. Need that device be the student’s own, however? For the sake of instruction, it seems to me it’d be ideal if every such device had the same software setup and admin restrictions. The most straightforward implementation of that would be for the schools to purchase and supply these devices, just as they do with stationary computers.

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Come on, man. You would have a point if they didn’t already have computers and tablets as part of their curriculum. Many schools are using things like Chrome Books, which are as much as a decent smart phone and infinitely better for use in typing. The phone is redundant and more likely be used as a distraction. They shouldn’t plan lessons around it because not everyone has a personal cell phone. And if one is going to mandate a device to do work on, then the smart bet is a Chrome Book or something similar which is better in every way for the task of teaching and learning.

Personal phones are redundant and sub par as a teaching tool compared to other tools out there. I would agree with you in a circumstance that it was the ONLY device a child had. But if one can afford a smart phone, one can afford a Chrome Book. Get the proper tool for the job.

The point that they are severe distractions, making a hard job harder is a very valid one.

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Um, is this news? So far as I read it, they’re not banning possession of phones, merely use. So kids can have a phone in their bag to use after school if they wish.

This is exactly the same rule that my son’s school in the UK has followed for many years. “If we see your phone, we confiscate it. And if we confiscate it, you don’t get it back until your parent/guardian comes into school to ask for it”. But if we never see it, because it stays in your bag, then that’s fine.

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stop-fight-for-pie

So who knew this would be so controversial!

I think that @wsmcneil has a point about the possibilities of smart phones in class rooms. However, I don’t like being called “idiotic” for preferring a methodology in my field that is rather tried and true, I have to say.

Given that my field is history, lecturing and reading discussions still take us pretty far in getting students to engage with history (done well, of course - whether or not I do it well is up to the students to decide, I suppose - I seem to get a fair number of people who like my style but there are always some who don’t - YMMV). I do like the idea of including research, but that’s just not feasible in the class room, considering how historians conduct research. Finding a primary source, for example, can’t be done in a classroom setting effectively, although it could provide a good out of class exercise. Even then, a phone is only going to take you so far. In the times I’ve seen students use phones during class time, more than half of that is for texting and other forms of ignoring me during class, and the other half is people looking at their tiny screens at the reading for class discussions… I’d guess other fields probably have more useful means of employing smart phones in the class room (replacements for calculators, etc).

So… yeah. I guess I’ll go back to idiotically grading my idiotic final exams! :wink:

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Reading @wsmcneil’s post, I had in mind the sciences and maths. Thinking back to my neuroscience courses, I wonder how much further the material would’ve patterned a memory into our brains with the addition of a two-hour simulation lab with dynamic models of synaptic signaling.

For my philosophy courses, text and discussion still would’ve sufficed, I agree.

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In addition, they should think outside the box, disrupting the paradigm, and engage thought-leaders in adding value. They could be moving the needle, rather than drinking the kool-aid.

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Yeah, and I understand that and agree the technologies can be especially useful there. However, let’s maybe not have yet another conversation about higher ed that assumes that the humanities can just fit in with whatever they are doing. It’s different kinds of knowledge and can be handled very differently.

I can’t tell if this is serious or sarcastic? I mean, it’s straight up corporate-speak, which has started to be embraced ever more by the academy.

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If your kid never goes anywhere after school except straight home, you are doing parenting wrong. And yes, that means that the entire culture of parenting in the Anglosphere these days is based around a rearing method that is wrongheaded, overprotective, and harmful to children’s ability to learn how to be adults.

Again, I have no problem with banning phones (by which I mean talk and text capable mobile telephones, not necessarily pocket supercomputers) in class. But telling kids they are not allowed to bring them to school, which means denying them the ability to phone home or dial 911 from the moment they leave home until they return home every school day, is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous.

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Best mathematics prof I ever had used his wit and an overhead projector to explain concepts (in this case, calculus). The attention from the class was almost palpable. He (and the university) encouraged thinking, not computation, which was the key reason why calculators were never used or seen during lecture and weren’t allowed on exams.*

Mobile computing has potential as an educator’s tool. I still feel, however, that profs like that prove that a tool is only ever as effective as the person using it.

*This disciplined approach worked, at least for me. Once during an exam, I forgot the derivative of a particular inverse trig function but because I understood unit circle trig and the principles of derivation, I was able to, well, derive it. Finished the exam and got my ‘A’–and felt like I’d earned it.

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They didn’t have smart phones when I was in school.
So I would read a novel under my desk, do the next day’s homework in class, or in the worst case, stare out of the window at the kids playing outside.

You want kids to pay attention in class? Make the class more engaging. Anything else is a doomed effort.

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I will say at the college level, students should be able to meet the professor half way. Other wise, maybe they shouldn’t be in college? We’re not trained circus seals, we’re experts in our field sharing our knowledge with the next generation. At some point, the students need to do their part as well.

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Tell that to my ex. But yeah, most kids are shuttled now, they don’t roam around. And those that did roam around didn’t need phones either.

I find it very ironic you say how wrong headed over protection parenting can be, then worry that kids won’t have a cell phone for an emergency.

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This right here. All three of my kids have chrome books and use them all day long. The cell phone is a gaming and social device for them.

I reiterate my above points. As a parent of three kids who are in various stages of education. I have no issues with banning cell phones in School to help them focus. It’s perfectly fine. And I do lot see it as some failure of educators.

What do I know though. I’m just raising them.

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I think I see what you did there.

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As an ESL teacher in Taiwan, I’m mighty conflicted on this one. We have rules in place in my secondary school - no phones in class unless expressly permitted. Break the rule and you get reported to the soldiers (yeah, we live under daily threat of invasion from China, makes for an odd situation) and it goes on your school record. It just doesn’t seem to deter a lot off the kids though. So part of me likes the blanket ban idea.

That said, these phones are basically your link to the world now. It’s fundamentally different from anything which those proposing the ban grew up with. Plus, the logistics - taking care of approx. 7,500 phones at a day at our school? We’d need to hire a bunch of new staff just for that. And then what happens when the kids have a legit excuse to use them, for research, translation, etc? Not to mention the fact that for kids who actually obey the rules, a bit of free phone time at the end of class is a damn good reward…

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I’ts been about 10-15 years, but in middle school and high school there were many days when before and after school activities kept me out of the house from 6:30am-9pm. A phone was definitely useful. Back then, though, it was just a phone.

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Zero problem with this. So long as the phone is somewhere safe when not on the student (that is harder than it sounds if would be thieves know/think every locker potentially has a $600 phone.)

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Lol like that’s gonna work. Kids and teens will still find ways to goof off, get in trouble and act like abusive dickheads even without the phones. I still remember in 1997 in middle school a bunch of my classmates in gym class got in trouble looking at a Playboy in the locker room.

I suspect that the ban would be overturned in a short amount of time because parents would rather blame the phones/tech/social media for their kids acting like assholes instead of blaming the kids and themselves for raising monsters.

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