[quote=“Mindysan33, post:79, topic:58982”]
So, thanks for saying that. It’s kind of sad that you need to do so, but thanks for doing so.[/quote]
It is sad, but I’ve learned to add disclaimers to things on topics like this, since reactionaries really want to jump on things. Either “critique = ban!” or “critique = tacit agreement!” So anything I say can either be taken as a prelude to book burning, or that I am somehow endorsing something that I don’t. In part this might be because it is the internet, and nuance is lost, or because some people are so entrenched that any statement that isn’t a binary is taken as opposition.
I went to school for philosophy, where one of the first things I had to learn was to disengage the author from the text, and realize what bits are contextual to the times, if not the deeper merits. Heidegger’s and Nietzsche’s works being the best examples of this, since both of them are seeped in their times and the faults of their authors. This doesn’t invalidate their works and thoughts, but it does require work to wrangle the valuable content from the parts that we now find disgusting. It is amazing, reading historical works, and realizing (viscerally) that women were taken as, very much, second class citizens with the mentality of infants; Jews were subhuman monsters, and other ethnicities were a bunch of primitives who needed the Great White Hope to save them. These weren’t reactionary or fringe views, but weren’t even worth thinking about as they were cultural givens. It makes authors like Twain, who didn’t work within this framework, seem so much more amazing (and it becomes so much odder, for wanting to ban his works for the use of the “N” word, within the context of the man, and the times, and how invisibility subversive he was).
They do exactly that even here. It is just not spelled out; the naysayers are ignored, the death threats are neglected (as their seriousness deserves), the devs do whatever they want to do - whether it goes for the mechanics or the graphics.
Why all the noise? Wouldn’t it be easier to make a game of your own, or (more effectively) make a mod (which many games support) for the existing game instead of mere loud criticizing? Yapping at the caravan is somewhat… powerless.
Perhaps people are just trying to draw attention to something that needs addressing. Making awareness for something that some people might not be aware of. I don’t see the problem with this. Perhaps it will even cause some developers to think, and reach outside of their comfort zone. I don’t know why people are so bothered with critique, if you don’t like what they are saying: ignore them (and if you disagree, civilly argue their points). That is all it takes.
So just make a modkit, and leave the devs doing their work instead of pushing them around. If the modkit gets successful, it is a better message than a thousand blog posts.
There are way too many issues to address. There will be always some vocal group for which any given thing is not good enough, for which something is missing or something is done “wrong”. If each such group got a mod instead, not only the discourse would get less noisy and more effective, but there’d be actually more of the whatever kind of issue/diversity/whatever the given noisemakers ask for, up for grabs by whoever cares. Without shoving things down the throats (or being perceived that way) of those who don’t, with corresponding reduction of inter-group animosity.
Speaking as someone who is working in videogame development (albeit not in a creative role), we don’t work in a vacuum. We hear and frequently are part of this discussion.
I personally would not categorize conversations about video games as “noise”. I mean, we don’t just take requests from consumers like a DJ at a wedding, but that’s a pretty far cry from ignoring discussion of the industry and of our work. At best, criticism illuminates and improves the games that are being made.
I don’t feel like devs are being pushed around. We’re part of the culture. Fans are part of the culture too. We make games that we hope people will want to play - that includes needing to be aware of what people want to play. And I really hate to think that the games we make are hostile to some people who might like to play them, but I wouldn’t know what’s involved in that without discussions like this.
I agree that in general we need more diversity in games. I mixed it up playing Pillars of Eternity, with a 50/50 male/female mix, and a myriad of hues. Fun fact, one is named Zita.
But I have to give a pass on some of them out there, especially the ones from Japan. They don’t have a lot of diversity like we do in the US. Many, (most) of their characters are this sort of ambiguous “anime” race which I have mentioned before. I am referring I guess mainly to the Pokemon comment.
But there is a valid observation that games tend to be very one dimensional character wise. I think that partly stems from the game makers being mainly white males and they don’t know how to write/create believable characters that don’t reflect them. Hence the diverse characters that do turn up end up being tropes half the time.
Nobody is pushing anybody around, that I can see. Stating your opinion, and stating how it makes you feel is NOT pushing people around. Saying something is wrong, isn’t hurting anyone. Making observations are harmless. Hell, even if these people decided to tell people not to buy these games, that is still fine, and completely in their right. You don’t have the right to make money, and you don’t have the right to avoid criticism.
How the hell is a mod useful? It does nothing to fix the problem, it is a post hoc fix at best. The fact that large classes of people are left out of games still exists.
There are never too many issues to address. You take them on one at a time, and try your hardest to fix things. Look at racial and gender equality, those were huge problems, intractable even. But over time we’ve tried out damnest to fix them, doing what we can when we can. We still have a long ways to go, but a surprising amount of progress has been made. Are you saying it would be better is women and blacks just game up, and realized that the problem was too big, so they should sit at home and do nothing?
No one is claiming that all games have to represent everyone… But they should sometimes represent someone who isn’t a white guy. I say this AS a white guy, I’d be happy if a game had me playing a gay white guy, or a black straight female, or a muslim arab, or anything but yet another white meathead.
So, shoving white males down the throats of everyone is okay, but having something that isn’t a white male is shoving that down the throat of the poor white men? I don’t think I’ll mourn the day when a white guy has to play as something that isn’t a white male. Especially since the white male has choice, they can play one of the 900000 games that have their image, where someone who isn’t doesn’t have that.
That’s not really the problem I’m referring to. I agree that there is something constructive about the sincere attempt to understand and portray people from a different background to yourself. I’m not sure there’s something constructive about doing it in a half-arsed and tokenistic manner to avoid a twitter-storm.
The problem I’m referring to is to the problem of world-building within an artificially constrained set of rules. I’d rather make sure that a more diverse group of people have the opportunity to express themselves creatively through making games than try to artificially restrict anyone’s creative choices. And the rule that every game must have a diverse cast is arbitrary and artificial. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t. It makes sense to ask, for example, why a skateboarding game wouldn’t have an option to play as a character of any visible ethnic background. I couldn’t think of any defensible reason for this. But there are some games, just like some novels, or some TV settings, where a less diverse cast is a perfectly defensible creative choice.
Look at it this way. Nobody criticises a novel because it doesn’t feature a black protagonist - unless there’s something about the content or setting that clearly suggests it should. People might criticise the literary establishment for not publishing more books with black protagonists, or for not publishing more black authors, and justifiably so. But no one says, “you know what’s really racist about Kazuo Ishiguro’s ‘The Remains of the Day’ - there’s not one black person in the whole book!”. So if we’re not willing to say that every novel should have a black protagonist, or even that every novel should have some black characters, why are we willing to say that about games?
It’s about ethics diversity in journalism game development!
That Twitter profile pic is not the slightest bit
Firstly, I’m not aware of any console games that allow mods these days (though I may be wrong). And console gaming is HUGE business.
Secondly, saying “Stop complaining, if you want it to be better just go and make a better version yourself” is ridiculous, no matter what form of entertainment you are talking about - whether it be movies, TV, or video games.
Of course, all the game makers would have to do is hire a (talented) non-white-male writer (doesn’t even have to be a dev!) and voila… Diverse non-trope characters!
I think the big issue here is the same as in any form of big-money-media. The people at the top (mostly straight white dudes) have it in their heads that “People want to buy games featuring white hypermucsled dudes”, and so they make those games, which then go on to sell a bagillion copies (see: every year’s iteration of Call of Duty, or whatever) and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
And this is one reason I don’t play those games.
I am a fan of Torchlight2 for all the options for generating the character (and gameplay/story as well)
I have stated elsewhere that a free play weekend got me to try RAGE which was nice but felt really pervy as all the women looked like they were 19 and eye candied up. Then I also tried Borderlands 2 for a free weekend and that blew me away with the varying body types, strong characterization for EVERYONE, being totally whatever about homosexual behavior and being just the right mix of dark humor, sci-fi, and western for me.
Well, there are a couple reasons why that’s not entirely the same thing. Probably the single most pertinent one is that there are books that feature black people. There are really a lot of them, and many of them are best sellers.
In a context where there are shockingly few games that feature POC protagonists, each game that features a grizzled white dude isn’t just a game that features a grizzled white dude. It is also a part of the vast, nearly unending stream of grizzled white dudes. It may seem unfair to judge a game based on factors that are entirely external to that game, but I’m of the opinion that it’s legit - games don’t exist in a vacuum.
Another big difference between games and books is how they are made and marketed. Making a mainstream game is an endeavor that costs millions, and can take hundreds of people years to do. To say “just make the game you want” is only realistic at indie dev scale, and I think the discussion about video game monoculture is more about mainstream big budget titles. (I haven’t waded into the #GamesSoWhite twitter stream to verify this, I apologize but twitter fights give me an ulcer).
How do you vote with your wallet, when what you want to vote for does not exist to buy?
Unless. . . perhaps you could organize some kind of campaign to raise awareness about an under-served market, to let publishers know that there is a type of game that mostly doesn’t get made by AAA devs, but which you would very much like to buy. Maybe a catchy hashtag on twitter or something?
You make a good point. If you were to say that we should pressure game studios (a) to encourage diversity in their development teams, especially the more creative roles and (b) among equally good ideas for new games, prioritise those ideas which would feature a diverse cast, then I’d probably agree with you. I don’t think a hard and fast rule makes sense, and I don’t think an individual game should be criticised merely on the grounds that the cast is not diverse, but since there are plenty of good game ideas that could involve a more diverse cast, I certainly agree that game studios ought to come under criticism for not doing more in this area.
