I take your point, tachinl. Might partly go to what you think a debate should be. As I said in my original comment, Greenwald was treating it like a classic debate (CITES CITES CITES!!), while Hayden and Dershowitz were just trying to be persuasive, as if they were on a network talking heads show. Greenwald absolutely won on points, but Hayden was charming and persuasive, though his cites consisted of “c’mon, just trust me! I’m a harmless old man with a sense of humor!”. Dershowitz was off the rails.