Google's lobbyists go big on climate change denial, raise money for Inhofe & Competitive Enterprise Insitute

What does this say about the meaning of consensus? Is consensus something that simply emerges independently in the minds of each scientist? Or, is it an artifact of the university system itself?

I’m sure it’s a bit of both and that’s why you don’t take seriously many scientists until their research has been rigorously peer-reviewed by a large number of other scientists so that a cog in their research can be found. If studies hold up after proper peer-review then we can make a reasonable assumption that the studies have value and can be used as precedent. That’s also very much how open source software works and that’s why openness and transparency is the best disinfectant to institutionalized decision-making.

That’s why climate scientists are continuing to study climate change. They all haven’t stopped and said it’s all settled and they know exactly how climate change is going to specifically affect the weather, sea levels, droughts, ice melt, etc.

The lie that climate change/impact deniers often propagate is that climate scientists refuse to even discuss climate change and global warning from a critical point of view anymore when that’s the furthest from the truth. There is ongoing, widespread research from climate scientists all over the world to continue to study climate change and bring new models forward for peer review.

On the other hand, you have fringe elements that manufacture consensus by positing fake peer-review and if they conduct real science they lose their funding from industry. Have you considered that’s what Jeff Schmidt is also warning about? That if scientists don’t tow the industry line, they can get rejected? These industry-sponsored “think tanks” thrive on being closed and having a lack of transparency. Why would you give these people equal credence to 97% of the world’s climate scientists who mostly work in the open with full transparency and proper “open source” peer review?

It’s a great way to muddle the waters instead of focusing on real science, that’s for sure.

This term “denialist” needs to be abandoned by climate science journalists. It bears no meaning when the models are under-performing.

Models always under-perform. There’s no such thing as exact science especially when dealing with something as vastly complex as climate science.

To start a semantic debate on what to call people who reject scientific consensus is useless. For example, there are studies that say that hurricanes may be pushed further east away from the East Coast due to climate change’s effects on the jet stream. No one is saying that’s climate change/impact denial, it’s the study of climate science and scientists are looking into it now (as they should).

On the other hand, the ones called climate change/impact deniers are typically people that aren’t climate scientists and they’re sponsored directly or indirectly by industry and their “studies” don’t hold up to true peer review so they (or their handlers) attempt to manufacture consent with “think tanks” that have very little to do with actual science and everything to do with a political and industrial agendas.

It’s important for people to realize that “thinking like a scientist” is no longer just a collection of methodologies and values. Ideology is now an important aspect of education.

You know what’s vastly better than “thinking like a climate scientist” and focusing on ideology? It’s being a climate scientist, rejecting ideology and focusing on true, properly peer-reviewed studies so we all can get somewhere instead of spinning our wheels in industry FUD.

What do you propose is better than peer-reviewing each other? Just taking each other’s conjecture on things and calling that science?

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[quote=“synthnseq, post:81, topic:9709”]
No because my being wrong makes you look better, doesn’t it? (don’t mention it!)
But I will clarify - I don’t dispute fluctuations in: temperature; CO2 levels; ice growth and melts. These things have been happening for millenia - ergo, man cannot be responsible.[/quote]
Holding you to your misrepresentations isn’t some kind of cheap shot to make myself look good, the way you’re trying to paint it. It’s to discourage that sort of dishonesty, or at least make it clear it won’t get you anywhere.

It looks like that lesson hasn’t sunk in yet. I just finished noting how anyone who proposes what we’re seeing today is comparable to the variations as seen in Vostok “is either ignorant of the vast difference in scale, or hoping their audience is”. And you’re still trying to pretend the one, which everyone agrees is natural, is just like the other, a rise nearly two orders of magnitude faster than the largest falls? Not impressed.

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‘Dishonesty’…‘lessons’…‘ignorant’…‘confusion’…‘misrepresentations’.

There is no confusion.

Global temperatures have been fluctuating since waay before man walked the earth.

They will continue to do so long after we’ve gone.

You can support your argument with as many barbed comments you can muster but the fact that things don’t stay the same can’t be attributed to man.

Incidentally, chenille - you know this. You don’t like it, but you know it. No amount of graphs and links can disprove it.

(Incidentally, your intelligence is a credit to you).

Now Cowicide posts about the NSA instead of doing something about it

That’s amazingly pretentious. Then again, by your past behavior I guess I should expect you to be perfectly comfortable making false claims about someone you’ve never met in your life.

like I did back in 1994 as the PGP interface developer -=Xenon=-, seen

You’re a legend in your own mind.

My work helped to popularize PGP enough to create awareness about the Republican
congressional Clipper Chip dictate which were hardware backdoors meant
to go in all personal computers!

You did a fantastic job. They utilized the Clipper Chip anyway in secret.

Thank you for educating me on the Clipper Chip. I had never heard of such things before. It was very prescient of you to know that I have zero IT security knowledge and professional experience whatsoever. Thank you!

Global temperatures have been fluctuating since waay before man walked the earth.

Thank you, captain obvious, for sharing your cutting edge knowledge of paleoclimatology.

I also heard from a libertarian “think tank” that a food policy analyst (fuck climate scientists, what do they know?) from an institute funded by ExxonMobil wrote an article that some random scientists agree with you that warming has nothing to do with human activity. You’re on the right track, mister!

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Telegraph is a right-wing newspaper with dubious credentials.

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See, I have agreed as much, no climate scientist has ever tried to argue against it, and actually there is a lot of interesting investigation into the subject. Pretending it’s something we don’t like and would try to disprove because we disagree with this…

…is just another example of dishonesty, in this case trying to paint a false dichotomy between all climate changes being natural and all artificial. Or am I really to suppose you don’t understand how one doesn’t follow from the other, or what it means for one effect to be orders of magnitude more than another? In that case, maybe you should listen to what other people are telling you, because your argument is risible.

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Chenille, I am always prepared to listen; I just don’t like bigots and unfortunately, the topic of climate change easily provokes strong reactions.

I have a hunch it is not a cognitive but a fiscal bias. Is is most likely synthseq’s pocketbook that is in charge of his thinking. A good portion of posts like this end up being done because the poster was paid to post that.

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Let me get this straight: your friend is:

  • A lawyer (specifically in copyright law)
  • Also has a doctorate in chemistry
  • Is is not stated that she has a degree in either physics, meteorology, climatology or any similar field
  • Bases her view on climate change on a novel by Michael Crichton
  • Works for Google AdWords

This seems to be a classic case of the trap many geeks fall into, that achieving expertise in at least one field makes them qualified in all fields. And I am not even sure your former date is a geek, as she may just be another selfish lawyer and not a Happy Mutant.

Cheers!

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I’m too lazy to look it up now, but ice cores are pretty important.

Normally, carbon trapped under the ice is released during the warming cycle and trapped back in during the cooling cycle. The driver there is the Milankovich cycles, which are basically the oscillation in the orbit of the earth. When we’re slightly further away, we experience cooling, and when we’re closer, warming. When enough heat is produced, more CO2 is released, which leads to more warming, which leads to more CO2 being released and so on in a positive feedback cycle. In this case, CO2 rise lags the temperature.

The problem is that today, there’s no corresponding Milankovich cycle. There’s a temperature uptick without the sun acting up. And now, the CO2 rise is leading temperature rise. This means that there’s an effect besides the natural oscillation which normally produces the initial impulse for CO2 rise to occur. That something else can only be traced to anthropogenic causes.

The main reason that the heat gets trapped in the atmosphere is always GHGs, of which water vapour and CO2 are the most important. Just enough CO2 to start the process off, and you start seeing the ice caps and permafrost melting and the trapped CO2 and water vapour getting into the atmosphere. This means that the earth retains more heat, and the global average temperature rises. Thing is, it doesn’t take all that much CO2 rise to lead to warming. The initial impulse can come from anywhere - the sun, or humans, it doesn’t matter. The scientific debate - insofar as there exists one - is the question of the temperature sensitivity of CO2 in the atmosphere; ie, what’s the curve of CO2 concentration vs temperature rise? And how fast does the temperature rise? Right now, the consensus of research results suggests that it’s pretty high, and that it increases exponentially (if I remember right) depending on the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Human caused CO2 rise is somewhere from around .03% to .05% of the atmosphere, so that’s quite a large change - nearly doubling the amount of it in the air. Now, if that concentration seems extremely low, let me offer an analogy: what’s the dosage difference of certain drugs that will kill you as opposed to curing you? Milligrams or micrograms in a 70kg person?

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We are all polymaths now.

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We aren’t due for another ice age for another 1500 years. But of course, that won’t happen because greenhouse gases are too damn high.

What we need is for ISP’s to stop trying to multitask between providing access and providing content of their own. Normally this would be considered a massive conflict of interest but because you need the lines and connections provided by the older cable and even phone companies you end up with that contradiction sitting at the heart of the network.

What we need is a truly blind pipe. A company that only deals with connecting people to the internet and nothing but connecting people to the internet. Unfortunately the barrier to entry is pretty high and you will even see municipal ISP’s getting blocked or legislated out for one reason or another that boils down to the national services feeling threatened.

Google has been good to me over the years, but something we all need to remember is Google is at it’s heart a company that is looking for profits. If the price is right they would gladly sell everyone out. Right now they see the value in at least appearing to side with customers since their business revolves around data and selling that data to other people. Without us using their search, email, and so on they do not have data.

I’m not saying Google is Evil. It’s just that they are a company like any there and the NSA fluff has shown they’re not above getting pushed around or politicking like anyone else.

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