See, clarification wasn’t so hard, was it? You should have done it at the offset and maybe this would not have escalated? I think if you had done that initially, it might have diffused her anger a bit–maybe not, I don’t know. You’d have to ask her…
But–again I’ll clarify myself–I do not think you are a bad guy, out to hurt women or purposefully dismiss them and how they view the world - I don’t know you, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt–because the truth is, the world is a shitty place and we all need to band together if we are going to make it better. I am sure you meant it with the best intentions. And no, I was not offering encouragement (I feel this is loaded, too), I was offering clarification on these issues from a source that was not personally involved in the same way as Marilove. I am not here to “encourage” you, because I am not someone who is marginal to the struggle for gender equality–like Marilove and other women on this board, I am central to it. I have views and ideas that are no less valid than yours or Mariloves. Once again, do not see this as a personal attack–see it as an attempt to make our views of gender issues clear to you, because we feel you are not getting it.
I think the crux of her complaint with your comment (and I realize this is downplaying her reaction a bit) was that you are writing off sexist attitudes to a “shrill minority”, where as she and I see it as a broader based problem in society. It’s not just about people complaining about Janet Jackson’s nipple–it’s about the fact that a dude can walk around shirtless or be on TV shirtless or whatever all sexy like, yet there is controversy when a woman feeds her child in a public place (which I think we all agree is non-sexual in nature, and completely natural and why do people think it’s “gross”? Because it’s a boob that is not directly in the service of men’s sexual fantasies maybe?). It’s about walking down the street in a city and being cat-called for looking good, and then being called a slut if we don’t return the attention (because some guy yelling at us should make us so grateful that we should immediately blow the guy?). It’s about the notion that we’re almost always damned if we do, damned if we don’t in ways that men just aren’t. it’s about the notion that a judge last week gave a guy HOUSE ARREST for raping a young women (HE WAS CONVICTED AND HE GOT HOUSE ARREST!!!). It’s about the fact that some many women (and men too) don’t report rape, because they don’t want to get dragged through the mud for having the bad luck to be raped. it’s about Steubenville and that other small town where young women were gang raped by the popular boys and then run out of town for daring to press charges. It’s abot all this and more…
And yes, I think that “shrill” is pretty obviously a loaded term–it tends to be associated with “uptight” women who want to be kill joys for the rest of. It ignores and glosses over the real nature of gender inequality.
I don’t think you’re a bad guy here bent on shaming women for existing–but I think you just aren’t seeing it form her (or really our) POV. I’m sure you are a fine person, and did not mean to dismiss Marilove’s example of sexual harassment that had a very real impact on her life. Yet, that is exactly what you did, intentionally or not. She might have been a bit harsh in her response, but given that there is a tendency to dismiss women’s complaints about sexism or harassment in the culture generally, it would have been nice if you had taken that into consideration. How we see these issues might not be the same as you see these issues, because they just don’t affect you in the same way–or at least they might not seem to from your perspective. When we try and tell you how we feel and you just say “it’s just a shrill minority that are causing the problems”, you are being dismissive of how we see it, and assuming that your view is the only one that is valuable to the discussion. You want to be an ally for women? Then listen to what we have to say about these issues and please take that seriously. That is what set her off–you just dismissing her description of what happened to her and the women in the article in question.
I’ll give you a less prominent/sexually charged example from my own recent life. I just got a new car. A month later, the battery is dead. I was fairly certain that I had not left the lights on (new cars tend to yell at you when you do that) or done something bone headed like leave the door ajar, so the interior lights were on. when the guy came to give me a jump, he bascially said “oh, you just left the lights on” (with the “honey” or “sweetie” implied)… I took it to the dealership, same thing - the dude dismissed me. But next day–guess what? The battery was dead. The two men I talked to just didn’t want to believe me. Now, if I had been a man, I doubt I would have gotten such condescending treatment (I could be wrong here, but I doubt it). Now, this isn’t nearly so bad as what Marilove went through and I’m not claiming it is–where she lost her job because some douchenozzle decided to hack her around and a picture to her boss!!!–but I think it gives you a bit more insight into how women can at times be dismissed just for existing without a wang.
Also, “street corner”? Really? Again, I think you’re resorting to yet another loaded term there… I’ll leave you to figure that out.
