How Big Tobacco invented Donald Trump and Brexit (and what to do about it)

[coherent_light]

@wysinwyg

The problem with the emotional connection is that the whole point of science is to suppress the emotional connection to try to prevent the scientists’s pre-existing beliefs and biases from interfering with the results. This is incredibly hard to do – hence the replication crises among all the social sciences and even much of medical and nutrition research. Once you reintroduce an emotional connection to scientific conclusions, you also reintroduce motivated reasoning which undermines people’s abilities to change their minds in response to evidence – probably the most important thing anyone can do in science. It also creates a sense of understanding where all you’ve really understood is the explanation, not the evidence behind it. As a result, it creates epistemic arrogance on the part of the junior science fan “I fucking love science” types.

Point, but the idea isn’t to alter the way the science is conducted, just explained.

And you already have that epistemic arrogance. Why not use it for things which are broadly true, like climate change, evolution, and vaccinations—things which have serious/considerable implications for public policy?

[lloydcogliandro]

@gracchus

Sometimes I think there was a tobacco industry meeting in mid-century America where the executives said “sure, our product kills millions of people a year, but if we’re going to beat out munitions as the most evil industry ever we really have to step things up and set the standard for doing evil in other industries.”

If you haven’t seen it already, check out “Thank You For Smoking”. Lobbyists for the tobacco, alcohol, and firearm industries refer to themselves as the Merchants Of Death at their weekly dinner gatherings.

[wait_really]

Gonna check that out on name alone.

[lava]

yeah, but how do you beat 'em when 'em is us

[wait_really]

The bastards were responsible for Malcolm Gladwell and his breed of hackery too.

[mous]

yes, but if it works for them, it works for us.

[mous]

I’ve always thought that evil hipsters are behind these movements. I still do. Memes are usually temporary but they’re a symbolic rally point for anyone who recognizes them so they define some kind of group. It feels good to be there. Imgur, Reddit, and 4chan exploit that feeling and provide dissemination and feedback of prejudice. Not only with people you don’t know and assume are your friends, but with data collection companies that have vested interests. If I had a subversive financial agenda and extra billion dollars, or even a few million, I’d invest it in memes.

Scientific procedure and objectivity aren’t the same thing. Objectivity means getting verification from another person (as opposed to subjectivity). Scientific procedure means getting proofs that don’t depend on someone elses opinion, even though the processes to get the proof DO have to be agreed on by observers.

[mous]

@lava: 'em isn’t us.

[lava]

Well 'em is more us than it is german nazis. So the assertion in my question stands.

[beep54orama]

I can remember when I was just a kid and we were in the hospital where gramma lived (she was there for most of my life and she went blind somewhere in that period) and the news came out that cigs caused cancer. Dad pooh-poohed it. Dad smoked. Dad developed lung cancer. Dad had a lung removed. Dad still had lung cancer. Dad died a horrifying long term death. Here’s what is awful. I started smoking. Young and stupid. OK. Well, Dad found out. Did not say a word. But. When I started, he stopped. Not one word about it. I only noticed when he wasn’t coughing when he woke up anymore. Too little, too late. At least I’ve quit. For like 25 years now. But I still fucking dream about smoking. I am still addicted. It will never stop.