If you think Jeffrey Epstein was murdered because no prison would treat an inmate that negligently

Confirmation bias: Looking for evidence only favoring one interpretation/one hypothesis.

Only looking for evidence that Epstein was murdered by shadowy powerful figures biases one towards supporting conspiracy.

Where’s the evidence that people die in US jails and prisons all the damn time, and that Epstein hung himself?

Rich white men are far less likely to be in prison or jail than those not sharing all those attributes, so their “dying while in jail or prison” is less likely overall, and—de facto newsworthiness of rich white man experiences in our media aside—their deaths in jail are therefore more likely to hold the shininess of “unusual spectacle.”


F’ing GoPro pointed at every high profile inmate. And no off-sies. How friggin hard is that? Now we have to spend orders of magnitudes more money on investigations.


conspiracy theories that say that it has to be a setup because it’s so implausible that prison authorities would be so totally useless are thoroughly disconnected from reality.

via metabunk

And people have killed themselves in cells with video camera in them. Here’s an example where a man made a noose, and practiced for hours without anyone noticing it

its a news-video from wsbtv, so thankfuly you dont have to see the whole horrible footage, because…the poor guy succeeded in his attempt.


Im an idiot. changed also the embedded video to hyperlink. sorry to all and thank you, borderer.




Uh huh.
We’re not talking about Qanon Pizzagate wackjob Illuminati conspiracy stuff.

We’re talking about a known pedophile and child-sex-slave ringleader who was best buds with the President for a decade or more, as well as a previous President and world leaders from around the globe, who he was known to have entertained at his child-sex island.

It’s not exactly surprising to find him dead in a prison cell, either by his own hand or by others.


Yes, but, none of those people were white billionaires, which we all know, nothing bad ever happens to. /s


Where would you hide a tree?’ queried G K Chesterton’s famous detective Father Brown. The answer was ‘in a forest,’ the logic being that it was least likely to be noticed there.


The flipside is that if you come across a tree in forest the overwhelming odds are that it wasn’t deliberately hidden there.


Who gains if a poor person dies in prison? Probably no one. With lax oversight, it’s not surprising that sadistic prison guards might have some sick fun.

Who gains if a zillionaire rich person dies in prison? Other zillionaires who might have been caught with the evidence the rich jailed person would have given.

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I think a lot of Americans still conceive of themselves as a nation of just, freedom loving, human rights defending people.

It has never been thus, but the propaganda has been very effective, especially if you’ve never personally been exposed to the dark sides of the system (i.e. you white, middle class or higher, and generally law-abiding).


Andrew Holland died in a restraint chair in San Luis Obispo County, California. He was strapped to the chair, naked, for two days. If you like, you can watch video of the guards laughing as medics try fruitlessly to perform CPR, though I would not recommend it.

The story of Shamieke Pugh and Maurice Lee has laughter, too, but I don’t think it’s funny. Maybe I’m humorless? Pugh and Lee were African American, and they were handcuffed, helpless, to a jail table when they were stabbed by a white supremacist. The guards laughed.

Darren Rainey was an inmate in South Florida. Guards put in him a shower stall, locked the door, and turned on the hot water. The guards taunted him, saying, “How do you like your shower?” He died. Though witnesses said he looked like a boiled lobster, authorities declined to charge the guards and said that Rainey’s skin peeling off his body must have been because of “slippage” caused by attempts to revive him.

Michael Anthony Kerr died of dehydration, like Thomas, near Raleigh, North Carolina. Kerr—an Army veteran—was off his medications and lay in his own waste for five days before someone figured out he wasn’t eating or drinking. He was handcuffed the whole time; they had to cut off the handcuffs because the lock was encrusted with his feces.

I haven’t read the whole article, but I do note that in all the given examples except, maybe, for the last, the inmate were directly or indirectly killed by guards. That quite lowers the validity of the point that is supposed to be made here.


Cameras are only useful for trying to figure out what happened after it happened, not for preventing it happening.

That holds true regardless of whether it’s a blinged out GoPro or something more pedestrian.


Or just be of average education, really need a job and not want to lose your house. I’m thinking of one specific counterexample whom I know personally. I’d agree that the system changes the people in it and also attracts certain types who can imagine fitting into the abusive culture we all know to be prevalent.


Yes, the nationalistic propaganda worked exceedingly, horrifyingly well; it’s true.


So, after reading the 32 stories… more than a few of those are examples of murder. Literally the take away is: “sometimes prisoners die of negligent homicide and sometimes prisoners die of murder.”


Did they?

Fact of the matter is the Epstein was just about useless in terms of continuing the case. Aside from his previous approach to testifying (literally responding “fifth” to every question possible). It’d likely be just about impossible to offer him anything in terms of a plea deal or sentencing consideration, just from a politics and PR stand point. And since sentencing minimums and sometimes minimum charges are dictated based on previous convictions (which he has), and you need the consent of a judge for any sort of deal. And with his previous plea deal exploding and under investigation, I don’t really buy a judge clearing another deal. The guy who basically said “fifth” 40 times in a row and nothing else is not likely to volunteer information, and no way in hell do his lawyers let him do so without getting anything out of it.

Meanwhile there are all those files coming out of the law suit, thousands more on the way. And they contain named names of other perpetrators and people in Epstein’s orbit. Along with that a lot of Epstein’s personal files and info just became a lot easier to get at legally for investigators. I’ve yet to see anything indicating Epstein was all that necessary for anything but putting Jeffery Epstein in prison. It might be a little hard to sue his estate, if only cause all his creditors are about to come calling.

Those very influential people appear to have already been implicated in the original case files, by the original victims. And all the records tying them to Epstein are still out there.


Tell that to the U.S. physical security apparatus.

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Reflect on how many years it has taken the United States government to give even a bit of lip service to American Veteran “Heroes” to be recognized as suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. True Heroes, often no more than kids placed in situations of horror beyond words. Many of those veterans continue to fight for recognition of their needs for treatment. Manu of these same men are in prison related to their experience. Lets just take a wild silly guess how low it will be before released prisoners are recognized as damaged beyond hope from what they experienced while incarcerated. Good americans will look at these savages and realize it was right to put these animals in prison. I spent many years of my professional career listening to their stories. Sadly It took a long time for me to believe some of their stories. Many of these men (usually men) were far from innocent but the horror that we afflicted on them very often pales considering the punishment we doled out. Suicide seems very reasonable to me.
This among many reasons is why I yearn to spend time in the jungles of South America.


Oh, I did.^ I probably still have the emails around … uh … somewhere. The cliffnotes version was “mmm, yeah. We don’t care about the evidence and studies that show this stuff at best doesn’t work or is counterproductive at worst. Don’t you understand - we have money to spend!”

^ technicality: the physical security apparatus here, rather than the physical security apparatus there


every bit as absurd and negligent as those surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s death.

I dont see whats so greatly absurd or negligent about his death. It was everyday negligence. A guy was suicidal and they didn’t put him on suicide watch. It must happen constantly in the [U.S.] prison system.