Is it hypocritical for free speech advocates to moderate comments on their own site?

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This thread.

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Advocating free speech doesn’t mean you’re required to listen to shit you don’t want to hear. In all I feel that the mods use a fair amount of tact when doing their job (that doesn’t mean I always agree with their decisions, and I have seen some unnecessary lashing out at users but that’s rare). They take a fair amount of abuse and criticism in stride, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get mauled if you poke the bear enough times.

I consider this to be a “safe place” to come and voice your honest opinion without fear of being doxxed or harassed. That doesn’t mean that assholes shouldn’t be shown the door. Even some of Reddit’s worst communities have moderation and rules.

If you don’t like it, it’s a big internet and you’re free to set up your own community.

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Pretty sure it’s a water bear.

[clicks avatar to zoom]

Yeah, that’s a water bear.

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that’s where you and your conversational partner diverge, if I may say that.

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It probably comes down to your personal values. If you think it’s best to lead by example, or if you think it’s better to have open conversation than restrict for the sake of keeping things on topic, than you’re more likely to agree with that idea. I think you can have some great conversation by letting things meander a bit, but that’s not for everyone.

After talking to a few people about it, I think it’s something that might only be possible as a non profit organization (social networks and online forums). A group that could dedicate the resources to allowing free expression online without worrying about explaining costs to shareholders. Another alternative would be state run social networks, but I’d personally find that a bit too big brother. Still, that might be better than allowing corporations to control our private data, and restrict our speech.

Rob mentioned that he’d considered starting another board with less restricted conversation than here, which I think means we agree in some ways, but he mentioned it would be a huge undertaking, in particular monitoring for hate speech, etc. A non profit NGO would probably be the best mix of no strings, and freedom to pursue a project with those values.

Nobody has restricted your speech.

Entitlement feels like cold when you deserve warmth (but arent grateful for it when you were being treated warmly), and feels like “being silenced” when you deserve to be heard (but were actually disrupting an unrelated conversation). It also feels like you were called an asshole when someone said your behavior was in question and seemed not to be in good faith. That’s your own ad hominem, not anyone elses.

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So, 4chan or Reddit? Or the EFF, if you’re more about actual useful stuff?
I seen what happens when unregulated free expression happens and it ends with racism, threats, hate campaigns and potentially a Cheezel Cockweasel with his tiny hand on The Button.

Fuck that noise.

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Yeah, it would require a lot of resources for preventing issues related to the harm principal… clearly more than what Facebook is dedicating per user right now.
This is Rob’s more specific idea:

I can see why he changed his mind.

What would be cool is a forum ran with vague but generally benevolent guidelines to encourage the exchange of ideas and opinions. If we could run it on some neat software that’s designed with similar ideas behind it, that’d make things real awesome. Maybe link it to a zine or website that has a mixture of activism, science, cool weird shit and I dunno, bananas or something in order to draw in the sort of weirdos that have a broad cross-section of life experiences but as a whole, still have a sense of wonder and humour despite the three-ring shitshow the world throws at them.

Nah. No fuckin way that would ever fly, amirite.

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I did make post in that thread too!

I think the problem is people don’t think when posting their views or pictures on FB and Twitter.

Your family and friends probably know some of your views on certain subjects and not be too offended, but with FB and others people share things and that’s when a problem could arise because the others don’t know you.

It’s very easy to offend people and some people like offending others, they seem to derive a great deal of pleasure from it.

I told a joke in mixed company one night it goes like this:-

Q:- What do you get if you cross a insomniac, agnostic and dyslexic?

A:- Someone that sits up all night pondering if there really is a dog!

Whilst others were laughing a family member sternly replied to me “But there is a god”. Whoops!

Now if I posted to my Niece on FB (Mostly cute fluffy animals, horses etc on her TL) the gif of a load of baby chickens in a meat grinder which goes from bright yellow to bright red in a second or two, she would probably punch me the next time she saw me.

So very easy to upset someone isn’t it? Still might post it, her husband would laugh his head off and I’ll run when she calls over.

With regards to moderation, if someone on this site decided that they hated you and began a derisory campaign against you, you’d want someone to stop them yes?

It’s somebodies site and at the end of the day there are rules and laws society has laid down for our general good, the owner of the site is also bound by law and would have to answer to the police if a serious abuse occurred and it was reported.

If the person owning and running this site allows peoples personal views on say religion or politics without being too disrespectful I’d be OK with that.

Censorship is a part of our daily lives, when you watch the news on the TV you don’t see a lot of the terrible things happening in the world, you only see their bias.

On the news in the UK the report of the poor young girl in Israel, stabbed repeatedly to death was shown.

The two innocent Palestinian teenagers recently shot dead was not!

Now to set the record straight I am neither pro or for either or against, I read The Algemeiner and The Electronic Intifada so I get a balanced view on the suffering and injustices carried out by both sides.

A good example is, I was reading the online edition of The Telegraph and the story was about some ten or twelve more Syrians suing the US over allegations of illegal detention and torture, half way through the article the screen refreshed and I was back at the home page, so tried to find the story again and couldn’t, it had been pulled!

So at the end of the day I decided to join this forum, it wasn’t forced on me, I’ve read the rules and agreed to them so there is where I stand.

I think I prefer to a degree someone is protecting us from that stupid rant, say one night whilst a little drunk and saying something that with a clear mind would never say.

I’ve upset a moderator or two and usually not for doing anything really heinous at all, some of the sites have US moderators and are biased against anything anti US, even if it’s the truth and that’s what pisses me off more than on the odd occasion getting a rap on the knuckles for being a dick.

So mod’s please, if I do something really stupid please feel free to reject it and in the cold light of day I’d probably agree with your decision.

FYI A devout atheist.

Regards.

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Liked for this. A lot of our social spaces – including physical ones – are privatised (e.g. shopping malls rather than high streets), so it matters beyond the level of government. On the other hand:

Yeah, scale and scope really matter. Stormfront exists. Many :video_game: :crocodile:: - friendly websites exist. It’s perfectly reasonable for a website to aim for a particular kind of community and restrict some kinds of speech that aren’t illegal or even offensive to many people. We don’t even have to like their criteria. In some ways, their freedom to moderate some comments and allow others is a free speech issue greater than that of an individual, since there are many other communities that the individual could join but the host should be free to host a particular kind of speech rather than being forced to host them all. While I may want to be able to express my opinion freely on issues like religion or politics, I’m fine with some communities saying that I’m not welcome to join (or that I can only comment in a restricted form) because I don’t share their religious or political opinions. Maybe they’re wrong, maybe it’s an echo chamber, but I have no right to insist that they welcome my opinion.

There are big differences in the freedom of speech I expect from Google or Facebook and from BoingBoing. On the other hand, even those websites are entitled to regulate speech that is not illegal in order to stop it from turning into Twitter. Extreme libertarianism doesn’t make for a good community.

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I like blocking people. It feels good. And they get to keep being dumbasses and I get to keep not seeing it. Win win. No reason for anyone to speak ill of it. Every website should have it.

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As an autistic person (not a “person with autism” or a “person who has autism” or other such language-torturing bullshit) no no no please no.

I don’t feel like it’s taking away my humanity or whatever if one uses an appropriate adjective when necessary. Besides, policing what I call myself without any regard to my say in the matter kind of makes you a person with assholishness

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Hey since he’s one of ours… just thought Id throw in some Canada facts about “free” speech… cuz uh… we dont have that here. Like at all.

Freedom of speech in Canada is protected as a “fundamental freedom” by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Freedom of speech in Canada is not absolute; Section 1 of the Charter allows the government to pass laws that limit free expression so long as the limits are reasonable and can be justified.

And thats not even getting into our hate speech laws.

Canada is a moderated country. And we kind of like it that way.

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I think you missed the comic’s point entirely.

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Brilliant! That should be required reading prior to posting as a new account. And maybe an annual reminder post, too.

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I only claim that I appreciate the brilliance in that post. It explains so much, and was penned by an experienced hand (one with more patience and quicker wisdom than my own). TNH was a mod here for a long time, and a lot of the community norms now are echoes of her tenure.

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Oh, I know. I’m one of many who miss her posts here greatly, and have followed her on her subsequent path.

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