In many states it’s illegal to add sales tax to quoted prices.
I understand the logic here, and it’s a great way to ensure that all employees get their fair share, plus a major bonus in that it should get everybody feeling more like part of a team and actually developing some company loyalty. As an employee I’d love to work there.
But as a customer, no thanks, once you make that tip mandatory, it’s no longer a tip, it’s a fee. Granted, I am a bit old-fashioned. I believe that employers should pay a fair wage for the work being done, and that tips should be non-taxable as a “thank you” gift for excellent service.
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I like that on Euclid avenue, there’s a business that uses easy maths.
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I always leave 20%, sometimes more if the service was great and non-intrusive. If the service was bad, I never return.
My experience is that in Europe (at least France, Italy, Switzerland and Germany with which I have any familiarity) the service is friendly and professional. But. It is much, much less comprehensive (for lack of a better word) than in the states. This may not be true in the most expensive of restaurants, but has always been the case in the mid to high end restaurants I tend to frequent.
In the states, the waiter takes your order, brings it, comes back to ask how it is and if you need anything, comes back again to ask if you want refills for drinks (refills generally being another American restaurant exclusive, by the way, sadly), asks about desert, etc. In fact, they sometimes come back too much. Then they come back to ask if you’re ready for the bill (and come back and take it)
In the countries I mention, the (very polite) waiter takes your order. They (or someone else) bring it. And…that’s it. You don’t interact with them again without seeking them out. To get more, you have to catch their eye. To get your bill you invariably have to find them and ask for it. Again–it’s polite, but generally they don’t hover, and just leave you to your own devices once the order is taken and food is served. You see them typically 3 times. Order taking. Maybe when they bring your food if someone else doesn’t bring it. Then when you find them to get the check.
I have to say, maybe because I’m from the states, I much prefer service here, though sometimes a “hovering” waiter or waitress can be annoying. I like refills. I like being checked up on so I can immediately fix any problems or get extras (salt? extra lemons?) tended to without getting up from my seat and hunting someone down.
Service IS different in those countries. Again, not because it’s bad, or rude. Just because there’s really less of it. Whether the custom of tipping is part of this or not, I don’t know. But it is different.
By the way, I do tip in Europe. Just a Euro or two though, either through rounding the bill up, or leaving it on the table. I’ve talked to many others who do the same, though I’ve talked to others who never, ever leave a tip.
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Yeah, I’m another non US-ian who would rather that people just got paid a decent wage. I’ve waited tables etc., and we used to share tips between all the staff. There wasn’t much argument about it because the tips were rarely more than 5% of our earnings, because were were earning a wage that you could live on.
That said, it was always nice when a US tourist came in and ended up tipping loads, I even got tipped when I was working on the bar, which is basically unheard of in the UK.
I never altered my behaviour because I was expecting tips from someone, I might end up putting in a bit more effort for customers that were spending loads of cash, but that was because they were usually the one’s who’d be a pain in the arse if they weren’t fawned over. Generally though the people who were polite would get the best service, and self important arseholes would have subtle delays, and would only get the bare minimum of help.
tl.dr pay your staff a living wage and tips are only necessary if you really think someone has done a good job. Or you’re trying to flirt (but that doesn’t generally work, most people don’t want to be thought of as prostitutes).
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That sounds about right - Australian service very much follows the European model you describe. It must be a cultural thing, though - because I much prefer the ‘leave me alone with my friends until I need you’ model. There are some franchise restaurants in Aus that follow the US pattern, and it’s a bit of a shock - really grating.
A good waiter here will spot the slightest nod from a diner - it’s not like you have to send up flares to get service. And you don’t have to pay them extra to get it - their boss does that for you.
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What’s the thinking there? To me, a ‘price’ is the answer to the question ‘how much do I have to pay to get this thing?’ - looking at it like that, leaving out taxes, fees and tips is really just the seller not giving you a straight answer to that simple question.
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I only once worked as a waitress (actually, we were called “waitroids” - I shit you not; I still refer to waiters and waitresses as “waitroids” Maybe it’ll catch on one day.) Anyway, I sucked at it. The place I worked at was full of douchey servers who would rat each other out to the management, and some that were quasi-management who’d totally suck up to the managers. There was one girl in particular who had been a waitress for a couple of years and was very good at her job; in fact she trained other waitroids and was one of the quasi-management. She used to tell her customers that she was new, because they’d tip her more if they thought she was new. I just couldn’t stand her. My point is that the whole system is really messed up and the people who are good at hustling for tips are basically liars and cheats. I wish his system actually worked; it was a good thought.
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This does seem to be a deeply-engrained cultural thing: Americans just regard tipping entirely differently to Europeans (lumping Oz in with Europe - sorry 
).
In fact, it seems I’d underestimated the cultural difference about the whole experience:
What? Do other Americans feel the same way? To this Brit, that seems inconceivably alien. If I’m out with family, friends or a loved one, I’m out with them; the server isn’t a participant in the experience. That’s not (conscious) stand-offishness; it’s simply not something I’d consider.
I much, much prefer the experience Daneyul described, in which the server does his/her job politely and professionally, but leaves guests alone unless specifically requested. I have to admit to discomfort with the US dining experience, in which the server seems to be overtly chasing a tip - which seems to be a social obligation anyway.
Quick question: would American commenters here ever consider not tipping? A couple have mentioned not going back if service is poor, but how often do you withhold the tip?
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Yeah, but it’s fun.
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It simply is their concept of friendliness and service. Perhaps a little disconcerting when experienced for the first time, but frankly, that’s the visitors’ problem.
The service in the US is much, much better than the UK. But it would be even if there were no tipping. The culture is just less stand-offish and people are friendlier.
The thing that used to drive me nuts in the UK was getting the bill, I’ve been to restaurants where it was impossible to get out because you could never catch the waiters eye.
I don’t want fawning service, I hate the wait staff hovering, and I really hate being asked how everything is before I’ve even had time to take the first bite. I do, however, like prompt refills and the bill coming without being asked for (and in the US, that doesn’t feel pressurizing, in the UK I’d think I was being asked to leave).
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I can’t stand it when servers try to become a party to the dinner. It’s awful. I once had a server sit down and drink out of a wine glass of another person at the table. In another instance, at a different place, the owner, who was an excellent chef, sat down and talked the entire time we attempted to eat. Both were not enjoyable, never went back. I always tip, but I am a bit of a sucker in feeling guilty about server’s wages. However, if they are awful, I will never return.
Regarding the bill : in France, at least, it’s considered rude for the waiter to give you the bill before you ask for it. It’s basically a signal which means “OK, you’ve been here long enough, you’ve finished your dinner, now it’s time to wrap it up and clear the table”. It should only happen in two cases:
- it’s getting late and they’re preparing to close
- you’ve been at the table forever after ordering the bare minimum, all the other tables are taken and they’re having to turn people away.
Being brought the bill before I’ve decided to leave is the one thing which I find most akward when I go to a restaurant in the US.
Note : staying for an additional 30 minutes or even an hour after you’ve finished your desserts and coffee is totally normal in France, I still don’t know if it’s the same in the US.
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Then your beef isn’t really with the restaurant, it’s with the wage laws. The restauranteur is just working within the existing laws that affect him.
In my experience, most people aren’t going out to eat to get food - they hit fast food places for that, not restaurants. They are going for the experience - and yes, involved waitstaff are usually part of that experience. People get to know the waitstaff if they are regulars, they talk, they chat, the wait staff are in many ways the “host” to the dining experience, and are expected to have much the same role as the host of a party - while not directly a member of the little group, they make sure everything is going well, stop by occasionally to chat, fill in any gaps and try to insure it’s an enjoyable social experience for everyone involved.
Personally, I prefer it that way - there are restaurants I go to explicitly because I like the wait staff, and I know their presence will make the whole experience better, and I tip significantly more at those places because the waitstaff are actually /doing/ more.
On the tip front, I’ve withheld tips only a few times in many years of service - not many, the tip usually varies between 10 and 30% for me depending on service (unless the meals really cheap, in which case the tip might end up as much as or more than the meal), but there have been a few, a very few, times where, yeah - no tip. If a waiter manages to go out of their way to antagonize the guest by acting like an asshole, while screwing up the orders of every single person at the table at least once, then there’s not gonna be a tip. Thankfully, this level of terrible is extremely rare. But at a certain point you’re not even happy about how much you payed for the meal, forget throwing anything extra on top, because the experience was so miserable.
I’ve never left no tip at all. I’m pretty sure I have been annoyed enough by outright rude service to leave 10 percent though. 20% is pretty much my baseline for good service, often going to 30% (or even higher) for very good, friendly service that I felt enhanced the experience. My wife and I long ago decided that the difference between 15 and 30 percent on most tabs wasn’t worth us fretting over, and we tend to err on the high side. (Helps that I worked in restaurants in the past.)
I definitely prefer the more attentive wait staff in the states. In Europe it just feels strange–like I’m being ignored— to never see the waiter unless you signal them. I always have to remind myself that’s just the way its done there. I guess its just what you’re used to.
I find the level of interaction here is generally based on the venue, by the way–places trying to appeal to a younger crowd often have waitresses that go so far as to sit at your table when taking the order. But usually they’re just pleasantly friendly while you place the order, and attentive afterwards.
For me, its just another element of the experience–a minute of chatting with the waitress/waiter here and there isn’t a bother, and if we’re immersed in conversation most of them know not to interrupt with a lot of chattiness. And while I’m sure one could see the chattiness as just an attempt to get better tips, I really don’t think most people are that calculating. Usually you’re just have a human conversation with someone. It’s a nice thing.
I’ve experienced that a couple of times, once at a pretty expensive (if casual) restaurant, and I REALLY, REALLY hated it.
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I’d /prefer/ not to, but sales tax is a bit different than mandatory service fees that are a percent of the price of the items you are buying. The tax is being paid to the government, the fees to the restaurant. The waitstaff /already/ works for the restaurant - they are not their own organization. There is no reason not to include a % service fee in the actual prices aside from attempts at psychological manipulation - while not including taxes means that if you are, for example, a chain, you can have your prices the same everywhere, the customer knows how much the restaurant is actually getting, etc. and so on.
The mandatory gratuity and percent service charges in general ARE dishonest - at other places, you have the /option/ of paying the price on the menu. You would be an asshole, usually, but you have the option. Here, the only excuse is the one you used “We are trying to con our customers into thinking the food is cheaper than it is in order to be competitive”. That’s still frickin’ dishonest.
Note that this objection doesn’t apply for flat service charges, which are another acceptable non-manipulative way to handle this, because you can easily tell in advance exactly how much you are paying.
It also doesn’t apply in situations where you have the option of foregoing service (there aren’t many restaurants like this) and thus foregoing the charge.
But since the vast bulk of a restaurant bill is going for “service” anyway, why not just make everything on the menu cost pennies and charge a 2000% service charge? That’s perfectly reasonable, right? No one would have a problem with that! The restaurant is just trying to be competitive after all…
