Let's focus on fixing problems, and not prejudice

Allies who don’t acknowledge objective reality or who get butthurt when others acknowledge it aren’t effective allies.

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I’m not talking about acknowledgement. I’m talking about categorization, but unfortunately that tends to be derailed into acknowledgement arguments very easily.

I personally will acknowledge my responsibility for every evil thing that has ever happened or will happen, throughout all time. It’s part of my religion.

Do you know about how the Democratic Party refused to learn from Lakoff? I think you’d find it an interesting subject, from what I know of your views.

That seems contrary to your primary point. a “blank slate” do-over is racist, who does that benefit? only one side. a blank slate start assumes we are at a level playing field, nope, we are far far from done.

Amasty for the perpetrators is focusing on the impact to the privileged entitled side that has been the historical perpetrators. What about reparations for everyone else?

Also, with issues like racism, it sometimes take generations to untangle that shit. There is active racism and biases, and implicit ones. Many people are aware enough to not foster active racism, but the implicit discrimination is much more slow and difficult to change.

For example: One might not consciously discriminate for a management position, but due to their entire life seeing only white male managers, are more likely to unconsciously view white males as being more manager material and pass over women, people of color, people with disabilities, people with tattoos or other marks, etc. Not because they are against any one group, it is a bias they likely aren’t even aware they carry. This is why active affirmative action is so important, it gets people into those roles so that everyone quickly becomes used to managers of all shapes, sizes, colors, whatever, it resets the societal norm, so to speak.

this.

Not less quantity, but maybe better quality? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

stay quiet? think of all the wrong things said about bread while you were away? better get in there…

Uh oh Melz, time to produce that long form birth certificate… smdh. sorry you have to deal with this shit here… :heart:

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You said this, so I asked if you could point to an instance where I ignored a point someone made.

I understand the distinction. The fact is that white males of all sorts get a lot of privilege from the American Patriarchy whether we ask for it or not. That my atheism (for example) is cause for that same system discounting my views does not obviate the privilege it accords me based on what it values most (being in both the white-skin and penis-having categories)

I’m familiar with Lakoff. I just disagree with him that people who need a strict daddy in a leadership role for themselves or those they consider “undeserving” or “childish” are going to be useful allies for liberals and progressives.

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Have I ever mentioned that I also have some Native American heritage mixed up in my ‘DNA cocktail’ as well?

Again, the irony of a person of privilege condescending to people who have been historically oppressed about how they need to go about fighting for equality is just astounding.

Therein lies the real problem in this complete failure to communicate; conversations are a two way street.

Why should I bother to listen anyone who clearly has no interest in listening to me?

Why would I give any credence whatsoever to their input, when they actively choose to ignore mine, despite the fact that I have a lifetime of experience of dealing with social inequality, firsthand?

No problem can be resolved if one person just arbitrarily decides that they ‘have all the answers’ and then refuses to listen to any of the people actively impacted by the problems which need to be fixed.

To reiterate what Mags posted yesterday:

Thats Not How Any of This Works

REAL allies for societal progress and equality know all too well that they can not be ‘the saviors’ of any oppressed people; the victims of oppression and injustice need to be able to lead their own charge themselves and to tell their own stories, in their own voices… and their allies can aid in that endeavor by believing them, and helping facilitate their ongoing fight.

Sure, I’ll get right on that; all interested parties should take a deep breath and hold it while they wait… :wink:

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Acknowledging that certain groups of people have historically benefited from various forms of oppression isn’t the same thing as saying that entire group is to blame, which is where this conversation keeps getting tripped up.

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This conversation is being tripped up by the clown shoes worn by the OP. The discussion has reeled out of control, and will move further afield at OP’s whim. it’s to the point it cannot be taken seriously.

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Welp, in that case, derisive gifs it is then!

jon-snow-slurps

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Quick interjection before I jump off this pointless hamster wheel of a conversation for good;

I personally don’t automatically “blame” any person who has privilege for the current status quo… unless they refuse to acknowledge the existence of that privilege and/or they actively, intentionally benefit from economic disparity, genderism, and/or racial inequality. (45’s admin and all his enablers are an excellent example of such people of privilege whom I do hold accountable; all those fuckers can go DIAF, for all I care.)

Long story short, I know who my true allies are, by the consistency of their actions.

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Agreed. I’m done here.

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Absolutely!

arya-bowing-thanks-lady

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giphy (10)

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xUOxf1EEBJ91YWKVji

I’m not white or male, but when I learn about an injustice or social problem that I’m contributing to my response is to find out what I can do to put things right. I don’t deny it or complain that I’ve been indentified as contributing, and I certainly don’t demand that the subject only be discussed in ways that don’t make me uncomfortable.

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Never going to happen.

While I agree more prejudice will harm our cause, the truth of the matter is that the Most powerful and dangerous group of people of this very nation are White High-Class Cis-Male Christians that owes their fortunes to Resource Extraction, Gambling, and Slavery. Sure Not all White and Not all Cis-males are guilty of this, but there’s a 0.01% of the global Population that are willing to kill all life on earth in order to protect their lifestyles and power over all of creation.

I’m Sorry, but the White Elites of America will have to be depowered so that Humanity have a fighting chance against Tyranny and extinction; Otherwise, said tyranny will lead to the extinction of the Human Race.

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11th-doc-this

ETA:

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I agree that our current leaders are leading us to extinction.

Pointing out the colour of their skin doesn’t help anything. Do we want Bernie Sanders running the country or Ajit Pai?

Saying white leaders are this, and non-white leaders are that, is discrimination. Yes, many white leaders are bad, and many leaders are white, but they could be replaced with equally unpleasant non white people. Many of the leaders in other countries are non-white tyrants.

Many of them are oil barons, with agendas that will end the earth as we know it. Doesn’t matter what colour their skin is. Just their values.

As one newb to another, stop. Just stop. Seriously, stop. I promise you things will be better if you stop.

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