Do we have enough pedants here to take them all on at once?
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Pffft Joiners
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I’m not sure what your point is. America does propaganda, so no big deal if China co-opts a religious institution for its own ends? Seems a bit facile.
Edited: Your text didn’t come through when I first viewed your post, just the video.
No, it’s not a shock that the CCP has co-opted everything in China, that’s their MO. My point was that confusing CCP propaganda with actual religious practice is unhelpful.
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It’s propaganda, but it’s kinda neat propaganda.
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Sorry! I hit reply before all my thoughts got out!
It’s also the case, though. Is it wrong in one case and not the other? If you have a generally criticism of employing culture for propagandistic purposes, then that’s fine, it’s certainly worth criticism. They’re not doing it in a vacuum, though is more my point. This is in part how modern diplomacy is conducted. It’s hardly insidious in that sense, given how common it is for countries to promote and highlight it’s culture for the rest of the world. And even in the case of the US, the way culture is presented often includes white washing the past (the example of Jazz being used as an example of Black American excellence in the midst of violent suppression of the Civil rights movement comes to mind). Acting like China is somehow acting outside the norm on this sort of thing seems strange to me. That doesn’t mean it should not be criticized as a general modern state practice, by China is not doing much that’s out of the ordinary here, with regards to how this is being presented.
As for the situation with the Shaolin school breaking with it’s past, I agree with you that is pretty awful and THAT is a strong indictment of this (much like white washing jazz was during the jazz tours in the 1950s). However, the original point made was comparing this to the HJ. I can understand the sense of unease, but I still don’t see it as the same thing.
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I agree, the HJ was a much more overtly military thing, and worse than turning martial arts as a spiritual path into martial arts as a secular cash cow/propaganda tool. I’m especially sensitive to this particular topic, since I spent a couple of weeks at Shaolin in the 80’s, when the government was much more hands off. So I feel it as a great tragedy, rather than just another bad thing of the sort that governments all over the world get up to.
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This was a fascinating and sad link.
Can anyone else attest to the veracity of this site’s news? I don’t know what to fully trust when it comes to China anymore, the CCP line is even spouted by Chinese grad students at CMU who have joined my local hackerspace. It’s tiresome bullshit and only the Chinese students believe what they are saying, none of us do.
I keep thinking that if Americans can rise up against Trump that the Chinese can rise up against the oppression they are seeing except they have a history of capitulating to totalitarianism. It’s funny because there are so many more Chinese than Americans you would think they would realize this and just stand up.
China can’t stop everyone who dissents. But they sure are trying.
The very main temple of Shaolin, is it too affected yet?
I have always wanted to visit it as it was…before the CCP destroys anything left of it.
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That’s fair enough in shaping your opinion. But I will say that a tradition that goes back so long and is so deeply rooted will likely be far more robust than that. It seems over it’s history it has faced government suppression before. I doubt that the government here is going to be successful at wiping it out, even if it’s shaping it in the short term.
Although I’d be a bit skeptical of the organization that puts the magazine out.
I’m not sure I’d call them entirely a disinterested organization, and they seem to have mounted defenses of some questionable organizations.
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Can’t attest to the veracity of that site’s news regarding tearing down Buddhist statuary, emblems, etc., but, previous to Covid times, I regularly interacted with many Chinese citizens in the US as well as many Chinese-Americans. I also know many people, Chinese and otherwise, that have visited Shaolin Temple in recent years. My understanding is that it’s been a somewhat-grotesque tourist trap for a long time now. Also, regarding many Chinese spouting the government line, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard statements that amount to the following: when the Chinese government says something is going to happen, it happens, and you do it.
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Granted, but in the short term, actual people are actually suffering. Keep your mouth shut and play along, or it’s “reeducation” or worse.
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I don’t disagree on that, no.
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It is not an absolutely unimpeachable source, for sure, but there aren’t many credible sources in China willing to go against the party line, either. There has been widespread destruction of Buddhist institutions and lifeways, not to mention mosques and Islam generally, in China. Reporters that report such things and their sources are not welcome in China. You can easily corroborate that the abbot of Shaolin, Shi Yongxin, has led the government-sponsored provincial Buddhist organization, and been a member of the People’s Congress. He has a commercial focus, and the CCP backs him all the way.
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Shaolin Kung Fu is so versatile.
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Fun fact: the word for a grouping of pedants is an “actually”.
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Thanks for that. I’d forgotten how wonderfully over the top Shaolin Soccer was, and just how amazingly well it used its special effects and stunt performers. Everything is clear and coherent, even when it is totally bonkers.
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Stephen Chow is very underrated. Ok, Jackie Chan is very good, but Mr. Chow deserved more attention.
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Massive coordinated demonstrations that devalue the individual are the totems of fascism.
If the Shaolin monks don’t want that to overshadow their ceremonies, they should pay attention to history. But, devaluing the individual seems to be the purpose of the Shaolin ceremonies, and the 2008 Bejing Olympics opening ceremonies, for that matter.
You’re forgetting the that devalue the individual part. London 2012 was in marked contrast to Bejing. In London, they celebrated… the NHS.
There can be more than one fascist totem.
Not sure what the 2018 Cheerleading National Championships are meant to demonstrate. That because that particular mass gathering is not quasi-fascist, no mass gathering can be quasi-fascist? But if “fascist cheerleading” seems a whimsical impossibility, just watch Riefenstahl’s Olympia.
I honestly do not understand how so many people can read one sentence and not be able to finish the whole sentence and, in addition, impute implications to the statement that are entirely their own not mine. I made an obvious, unspectacular observation, and everyone’s losing their mind.
Are you seriously trying to say that co-ordinated demonstrations exist only to prop up totalitarian governments?
No. I’m not, and I didn’t. Where did I say this had anything to do with the Chinese government? Calling it quasi-fascist does not mean that the Shaolin monks are arms of the Chinese Communist Party apparatus. (Although, if they have been coopted, it wouldn’t be surprising or unusual.)
Was the sight of 2,008 synchronous drummers in the Beijing Olympics meant to uplift the individual or rather grind it into a faceless uniformity?
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