/thread
3 Likes
This all reminds me of the story by David Gerrold (of Star Trek TOS The Trouble with Tribbles fame). H.A.R.L.I.E., a sentient computer, wants to know if he has a soul, so he devises a plan to model the universe, determine if it requires the inclusion of a deity, and if so, he can ask it⊠A fun, light read.
1 Like
Actually, I suspect itâs impossible, and I didnât construct the proof, although Iâm damned if I can remember who did. It goes like this: any reasonably faithful simulation of the universe would have to simulate all the states of every particle - position, mass, velocity, spin, etc. But there is no way to simulate that many bits in a smaller number of particles than the universe itself. Therefore, the real world is the only possible simulation of the real world. QED.
I believe I have been nerd sniped.
1 Like
Nah, the simulation doesnât have to run in an exterior universe with any semblance of relation to our own. It could be a universe of thousands of macroscopic dimensions, or it could be composed of infinite monads or it could have vastly more structured complexity at some micro-level suitable for computation. Indeed, it could be an existence that is literally inconceivable to us but that nevertheless makes it easy to compose such grotesquely large computational systems as would be required to implement our own universe.
Indeed, from one point of view, the universe is nothing more than data and computation, so it has to at least be a formal system, if not an actual simulation.
Anyhow the whole idea of limiting the possible qualities and laws of a universe exterior to our supposed simulation is so wild that thereâs clearly no way of applying words like âlikelyâ or âprobablyâ to these speculations, which is what some of these philosophers are trying to do at present.
3 Likes
Is the Universe a Simulation?
Does Betteridgeâs Law apply here?
4 Likes
I have often proposed the following facetious, irreverent, and pseudo-religious argument for the proliferation of quantum particles:
I propose, based on the spurious logic of the above, that our inability to make sense of the universe at the smallest scale is evidence that it IS only a simulation, and that the level of resolution of the simulation is revealed by the uncertainty at quantum magnitudes.
1 Like
The idea that you can test if your universe is a simulation is ridiculous.
The first question to ask should be:
Is my mind a simulation?
Worry about the âuniverseâ later.
3 Likes
Even if you think we should worship you, if you are experimenting with plagues on us, why should we worship you?
I donât think heâs asking for worship. I think heâs simply informing us of the facts, possibly because it will make the simulation slightly more interesting in ways that we could not possibly fathom.
Think of yourself as Manfred Macx, trying desperately to outsmart Aineko.
Nut-uh! Then all the knots would come untied, and your insides would be outside. But I continue to believe the only adequate simulation of the universe is the universe itself, and therefore tautology.
Such a being may well be a god, but not âGodâ in the Judeo-Christian sense.
When It is said that the universe is a simulation I always want to say, âA simulation of what?â
1 Like
I suspect that the simulation is designed to test the suitability of galactic black holes for long term data storage, or something else on an equally large scale. It is an interesting ethical puzzle to consider the side effect of having a highly detailed system creating the occasional simulacrum of âintelligent lifeâ, but, regardless of the initial parameters, the simulation will come to an end, long after its universe can support anything like âlifeâ. Zero beings to start, zero at end, so no special permissions needed to run it. And, hey, if something arises that can survive the heat death or the big crunch, thereâs funding and serendipity awards a plenty.
The idea that those side effects might think they are the subject of the study is really kind of sad. Time for a beer and a comedy.
2 Likes
Advancing up the Kardashev Scale?
1 Like
I think one of the interesting things that weâll find out (when our Simulating Overlords are shown to exist and open a dialogue) is that they had absolutely to do with, nor in any way resemble, the god(s) we ourselves apparently created. âHuh? Nope, that wasnât us.â
well, there is not just the judeo-christian god to choose from, though I am not sure why would you exclude that one.
How would a Simulator change mathematical reality? Physical reality, sure, the Simulator can move/create any atom anywhere he wants. He can stop time. And many other âmiraculousâ things. But he canât make 2+2=5. He canât redefine pi. Can he?
1 Like
The âare we in a simulationâ question always ignores two important and erroneous assumptions, those being that 1) that these take place in âourâ future (whatever that means, because everything we know is probably simulated right?), and 2) that those doing the simulating are like us and use equipment we would recognise as a computer. Itâs far more likely that any such beings would exist in a way thatâs far beyond our understanding. In essence, âare we living in a simulationâ is the exact same question as âis there an omnipotent godâ. And from a scientific viewpoint, the answer is the same: âdonât mean shÄ«t eitherhow.â
From a wikipedia article on Greg Bearâs Eon Trilogy
The opening of gates and use of field technology permitted the Geshels to cover the Way with soil and living plants, as well as fill it with air, for nearly a lightyear down from the Thistledown. This magnificent area remained as wilderness for much of the life of the Way. Soil, air and water were brought from worlds accessed from within the Way. Quickly, the gate openers discovered that the epoch and origin of the Thistledown within Earthâs solar system defined where the gates opened to - almost without exception (and these exceptions included as a consequence of the infinities addressed through superspace geometries as defined by Patricia Vasquez) were alternative versions of Earth within other Universes. Thus commerce was possible with these universes. Covering the surface of the way and filling the way with air was rendered simply by opening gated in proximity to a planet not occupied by intelligence or excessive quantities of animals, and then sucking the air and soil from these worlds to cover the Wayâs bare surface.
Gates are capped with cupolas formed from Space-time itself. As distortions in space-time geometry, their nature can be calculated by 21st century instruments laid on their âsurfacesâ. The constant Pi, in particular, is most strongly affected.
1 Like
Youâre confusing me with one of the SimDeities in your simulation, whose powers are indeed constrained by the laws of mathematics and logic. E.g., He cannot make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it. (Well, in Safe Mode, anyway. Itâs considered lazy programming to write gods that are intrinsically capable of doing impossible thingsâsort of like using GOTOâbut there are all kinds of open-source omnipotence libraries if you want to jailbreak your SimDeities.)
By way of demonstration, I just changed Ï so that, starting at the 2â¶â”â”Âłâ¶th decimal place in base-16, it reads: 424553555245544f4452494e4b594f55524f56414c54494e45.
1 Like
