Nine deaths today from mass protests in Ukraine

Not sure if serious.

People dieing is bad, sure. However this isn’t really an argument in this debate since this can happen anywhere, even in the great new democracy of Mesopotamia.

bagpipes = the new less-than-lethal tool for suppression of civil disobedience.

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Yes, reading is hard for some people, apparently. If you can’t be bothered to read just why Ukrainians have been motivated to occupy Maidan Square for the last two months and put their lives at risk in so doing, then kindly find somewhere else to parade your unwillingness.

Is your point that “He was elected, hence not a dictator?”

dic·ta·tor [dik-tey-ter, dik-tey-ter] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person exercising absolute power, especially a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
2.
(in ancient Rome) a person invested with supreme authority during a crisis, the regular magistracy being subordinated to him until the crisis was met.
3.
a person who authoritatively prescribes conduct, usage, etc.: a dictator of fashion.
4.
a person who dictates, as to a secretary.

We can rule out the last 2.

Man, am I getting full. Stay on topic, people.

I’m not seeing the other 2 as applicable either. I see a weak president holding negotiation talks with the opposition, while rioters are causing death and destruction and outside powers plot to move their candidates into positions of power.

There are some in this discussion thread who think there is some law out there that the prez used to give himself “absurdly sweeping powers”, however they are at a loss to provide any facts to back this up.

You’ve failed to provide any facts to back up this assertion.

If there are new laws to regulate public gatherings, I suspect the 10-15 years is reserved for those who are found guilty of inciting riots that end up causing serious damage and/or death. This would make sense.

However some people prefer to view foreign leaders that they don’t like as evil cartoon characters that create stupid evil laws that make it obvious to everyone that they are evil. Experience shows that there’s nothing that can be done to convince these people that such a view is less than realistic. So whatever.

now, im no expert on Ukranian affairs. but i see a lot of talk of new laws circa november last year which were part of the escalation of this very unfortunate circumstance.

i am curious why this point of proving there even were restrictive laws is part of the solution*. now that this is settled, perhaps you would answer a question rather than only challenging everything, adding little, and being generally disruptive and dismissive, if you please.

    • to the dying, unless the protesting itself is your issue?

For those that have little idea what’s going on (like me)…I found these maps to be very helpful:

However…the explanation does not give me much hope for an easy peaceful outcome.

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Nine people died earlier today in mass protests over Ukranian President Viktor Yanukovich's dictatorial rule and his decision to side with Russia instead of the European Union.

It’s a bit more complex than that. It’s not just Viktor’s decision. He represented many in the Ukraine that felt that the EU trade agreement would have been disastrous for the Ukraine.

Stephen Cohen: The Questionable Motives Behind Western Involvement in Ukraine:

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There’s a healthy, heated debate on the Ukraine here:

Debate: Is Ukraine’s Opposition a Democratic Movement or a Force of Right-Wing Extremism?

Video with full transcript.

Just seems like a complicated mess to me. All in all, I get the distinct feeling that we’re not getting the entire story from western media here.

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$#%&^@()! COWICIDE! This was a nice and simple black-and-white debate, wherein it had been decided (by dint of posting more than the opposition) that FACTS and CITATIONS are tools of the dictatorial class.

Haven’t you learned that the only people who ask for verification of strongly-held convictions are astro-turfers? They just want to muddy the clear waters of righteous indignation with the mind-clouding powers of history, context and moral ambiguity.

And here you go, playing into their hands.

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I think my country’s leaders are evil cartoon characters who enact evil, sweeping laws. I’m prepared to offer denizens of other nations the same courtesy.

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This is the most honest and forthright account of what’s going on that I have read in the US media:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/

P.S. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1898241_722211801143235_1305869420_n.jpg

Shot dead today by government snipers. And you’re arguing about whether the man can be called a “dictator”?

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P.P.S. Live feed from Maidan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObBHW8XQvUQ#t=131256

Helpful if you understand Ukrainian, of course.

Lol, so because people die from police violence in US, Obama is a dictator?

/facepalm

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People are being picked off in the street by government snipers and your laughing and bitching about semantics?

/facepalm

People are being picked off in the street by government snipers and your posting on internet forums?

/facepalm.

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