Peak Indifference: are we reaching climate's denial/nihilism tipping point?

Perhaps this is why people don’t want to spend money on fighting climate change. https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings/index.html

This is about using the law to change the way corporate actors carry out business.

VW should have been bankrupted by their antics.

Ultimately the best way of punishing VW is to take some roads away. Turn them into bicycle lanes. All car companies are backed by their national governments, so the corruption will never end. Nobody wants the innocent factory workers to loose their jobs.

Has a nyone noticed how hard it is to find out what’s a ctually contained in the green new deal? I mean, sure you or I could find it in the congressional record, and come up with our own summeries. Its not secret knowledge the way the Meuller report or the TPP was supposed to be.

Its just suprising how all the media seem to focus on how people are reacting to the concept, without probing the a actual content. Would the green new deal make a difference? Or is it too late for that?

And now that Ive been taught the idea of stratigic framing in media coverage, I see it everywhere. This story gets it half right, in this idea of peak indifference. Scientists probably wont have to work as hard to get people to understand whats happening, as the weather keeps getting more extreme.

But the whole idea that there is ever a time that’s “too late” to act, thats coming from a broken frame. Its too late to act when there are no more people. Its too late to act when we lose the needed infrastructure to burn fossil fuels any more.

It is too late to act for the honeybees, the monarch butterflies, the starfish, the tropical beetles… but they wont be missed by the likes of Chevron or Big Coal.

Everytime I hear the phrase, “too late to act” I think about James Watt, Reagan’s secretary of the interior. For him, it was too late the day he entered sunday school.

The whole idea of “too late to act” presupposes that there is a class of people whose interests are served by doing nothing about the problem. And depending on when you were born and if you have or want kids, maybe their math is the correct math.

Which is morally bankrupt. You might as well say its too late to push vaccinations because things are only ever going to get worse from here on out.

Please, stop promoting hopelessness. Stop hypothesizing the “too late to matter” moment. If that moment ever happens, we’ll all be too busy trying to survive, to notice.

7 Likes

I am a disabled, communalist, trans woman, I know the psychological toll of not conforming. I am not conforming by refusing to ride a bycycle, it is something that my body will not allow me to do. I wish I could, but it just isn’t happening. If I try I will achieve nothing but ending up in bed for a week, consuming opioids to cope with the pain. I’d rather not do that, thank you. It doesn’t help anyone.

9 Likes

tbl

3 Likes

You need to show people a map of the Earth centered on the North Pole, with an ice-free arctic ocean, a great east-west band of desert across much of the Continental US, the “Great Green North” of Canada including a new megalopolis of fifty million surrounding Hudson’s Bay, and of course a vast temperate and verdant Siberia, agricultural and industrial engine of Russia, the planet’s one remaining Superpower. I think that will get their attention.

3 Likes
4 Likes

It seems like a fantasy that all people will wake up when things are demonstrably bad enough.

Are we at “peak indifference” on whether tax cuts for the wealthiest trickle down massive benefits? No, we’re not.

Will there always be some form of Flat-Earthers? Yep.

There will always be some people who will deny climate change, even as floodwaters head north of their nipples.

It’s more important to put those people who already understand climate change now, in positions of some power now.

2 Likes

The scale of the US is often missed by folks in other places. That’s Germany laid over the lower 48.
(Created on http://overlapmaps.com/)

2 Likes

First entry on duck duck go…

8 Likes

Then go, for fuck’s sake. Go NOW!
Not least because it is a problem for them NOW, even if they haven’t the wit to see it.

(And I am an older person, but one more in tune with @OWYAC than these nimbys)

2 Likes

Yes: climate change deniers are, on average, dumber and morally worse people. But so what? Your carbon footprint doesn’t magically disappear the day you accept the reality of climate change. And once the deniers are gone, it’ll be you who isn’t doing enough.

Framing “environmentalism” as a david-vs-goliath moral conflict worked great for things like pollution, because that’s pushing at an open door. It worked because, ultimately, “people who like trees and non-flammable rivers” vastly outnumber “people who own chemical factories”. Clean air legislation is a win for Goliath.

But that politics won’t work with climate change, because the underlying reality is not everyone-versus-a-few-baddies. Oil companies are bad, but in the end we’re the ones burning those Jurassic forests. We can point fingers to make ourselves feel better, or we can stipulate that it is no one’s fault and actually confront it.

For instance, the focus is nearly all on prevention (reducing emissions), because that lends itself to score-keeping, which helps with the blaming. When we fail to meet targets, that’s good news for liberal politicians, who can use it to beat their opponents. When we set ambitious targets, it’s good news for right-wing politicians, who can use the prospective costs to beat their opponents (and then cause us to fail to meet the targets).

Given that we are definitely not going to prevent significant warming, it seems to me that the conversation should be “shut up about emissions, what will you do to mitigate the damage that is coming?” Over the next hundred years, we’ll probably have to radically overhaul much of the world’s built environment, food infrastructure, etc. We can start now, and treat it as a huge and economically stimulating opportunity; or we can do it in a series of chaotic retreats after it’s too late to do it right.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t also reduce emissions. I’m saying, if we focus on the consequences, that will make the need for reduced emissions a reality for people. People still have the impression that, with enough solar farms, we could avoid major consequences; but the idea that major consequences are avoidable removes the urgency, so we don’t build enough solar farms. But if people see Miami being trucked to Georgia one block at a time, I think the argument for renewable energy will move several points up their list of priorities all on its own.

We must all join forces to fight our common enemy: evil, evil Mother Nature.

Intrigued by your remark, I had to look up this guy. Christ, what an asshole, etc.

(last sentence: “In 2008, Time magazine named Watt among the ten worst cabinet members in modern history.”)

3 Likes

Having been tracking atmospheric science since the days of acid rain from my perch halfway between Harvard and MIT, I can tell you that once you realize the enormity of climate change it takes about six months to go through the despair and hopelessness that realization gives you. I experienced it myself in the mid-1990s and have seen it in quite a few others as they hit that wall and then slowly go through it.

You come out of the despair by recognizing that we’re all gonna die anyway so you might as well do what needs to be done in order to diminish the losses and the suffering for yourself, others, and the ecosphere.

Lately, I’ve been going to Extinction Rebellion meetings (international actions scheduled for the week of April 15 so mark your calendars) and see that most of the people (about half under 30 and half way over, all ostensibly “white” and middle class or better) are going through the initial despair stage.

In the past few years, I’ve found that the practice of geotherapy, using existing ecological systems to repair the damage homo sap sap (the sap) has done, holds out great promise of drawing down the carbon from the atmosphere back to pre-industrial levels (270 ppm) by the end of the century IF we use the known techniques consistently and globally. Geotherapy will also improve our soils and waters and expand the biosphere. However, geotherapy is not even on the radar of the institutions and policy-makers. If the subject comes up at Harvard, MIT, or the other universities around Boston, it is because I bring it up in the Q and A, as I did the other day to the President of the Union of Concerned Scientists.

This is strange to me as Boston is a hotbed of geotherapeutic action with one of the leading proponents, Tom Goreau, a graduate of both Harvard and MIT, living here. I’ve also been suggesting to boingboing for a couple of years now that they at least look at the principal geotherapy text (see below).

Resources for geotherapy include
https://www.crcpress.com/Geotherapy-Innovative-Methods-of-Soil-Fertility-Restoration-Carbon-Sequestration/Goreau-Larson-Campe/p/book/9781466595392
http://bio4climate.org
http://soil4climate.org
http://drawdown.org

Lastly, ecological design pioneer John Todd, has written a new book which covers his whole career of building “living machines” which clean water of the worst toxics through ecological methods. It is called Healing Earth: An Ecologist’s Journey of Innovation and Environmental Stewardship (Berkeley, CA: North Atlantic Books, 2019 ISBN 9781623172985) (https://www.northatlanticbooks.com/shop/healing-earth/). It is also a fine resource for geotherapeutic thinking. My review is at http://solarray.blogspot.com/2019/03/healing-earth-through-waters.html in case anyone is interested.

5 Likes

One thing that really does demoralize me though, are the young(ish) people who ARE having the kids, which is fine, but then insist on the SUV and meat at every meal, and can’t make a move without their bottled water, etc. I’m not doing this for my kids, since I don’t have any, I’m doing it for their kids, and it would be kinda nice if they would consider that their unwillingness to give up any conveniences is one of the things that’s going to make it harder on their own kids down the line. Rant over.

6 Likes

I’m there.

Trump immediately attacking my health care after this report being covered by the head of the senate is overwhelming.

It also usually has no decent mass transit, which means more personal vehicles (and without a job, that means the vehicle is likely to be an older internal combustion one).

They’re still operating on the old assumptions of what makes for a good American middle-class suburban life, drilled into them by parents who grew up in the 1950s and 1960s. Heck, I’m well past my 30s and I don’t live like that (as much for my own physical and mental well-being as for doing my part to save the planet).

I do notice a lot of young people (under age 25) rejecting a lot of those values. For example, most of the teenagers I know aren’t interested in owning a car. Admittedly, these are kids in prosperous urban areas where quality mass-transit exists or is being brought on-line, and many of them are off-loading driving to less privileged gig-economy workers. However, it’s a definite change in mindset from when I was their age.

4 Likes

Great. Full text of the legislation, wheres the discussion? Is there a point by point dissection? Has anyone bothered to translate it from legalese to english? What would be the effects of this law if it were passed?

These are the sort of things I see done all the time for Trump’s drivel. Since basically the fate of the species rests on this kind of legislation, Id expect more discussion.

That’s not really relevant to how much CO2 is produced by commuters. Nobody is driving from Kentucky to Idaho to get to work every day. American metro areas are the same size as European metro areas – or, in any case, if they are not, the discrepancy is not illustrated by that map.

I mean, I guess you can read it and see what you think. I’m sure there has been some analysis of it since it’s been out there for a while now (a couple of months, at least, by this point). Maybe start with Vox and work your way out there there…

And yes, the mainstream media isn’t going to do a great job of this kind of break down of a resolution like this, because they have no vested interest in a real discussion on real issues. But I’m sure there is decent stuff out there that covers the nuts and bolts in an educated manner.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.