Putin calls for invasion of Ukraine; UN security council meets

[bwv812]

@time

id anyone expect this? Was he ordered to do this? Was it routine procedure? Were there consequences? Did the students receive apologies and money? Was the officer fired?

No. Yes. Yes. No. No. No.

Evidence for this? If it’s routine procedure how come it doesn’t happen at every student protest? Who ordered him to do this?

@time

Firing tear gas rounds is lethal force? OK.

Yes, when fired directly at the head at short range. A civilian doing it would be charged with attempted murder/murder, wouldn’t you think?

Is that what happened? Proof? They aren’t even certain it was a tear gas round.

A civilian arresting someone could also be charged with false confinement. Police are allowed to do things that civilians aren’t. Using tear gas in this kind of situation is probably one of them. Murder is an intentional crime. Unless he intended to kill, murder isn’t an appropriate charge. If he only intended to lawfully shoot tear gas, this isn’t murder and more than killing someone while lawfully driving your car is murder: it’s manslaughter at most.

@time

Mistakes happen and there will always be bad actors.

Ah, so when someone does we don’t like, it’s violent suppression and murder but when we do it it’s a mistake and bad actors. Keep up the double standard. The US does.

OK. So who do you sue for Yanukovich’s killings? What kind of redress is possible?

And there is a big difference between doing something intentionally as a matter of policy and things happening because people make mistakes or just suck. Inadvertently getting into a car accident isn’t the same as intentionally ramming things with your car.

@time

That’s because US protesters have yet to attack the police with clubs and stones and shoot at police. In every instance, our protesters were removed from the place of protest. In Kiev, protesters fought. In the US, protesters did not. If they had, they would have been shot.

Don’t you think it’s telling that in the US protestors don’t feel they have to do this? I mean, if the US is such a bad place and entirely the same as Yanukovich’s Ukraine, as you seem to be suggesting, why haven’t US protestors taken these steps? Maybe because they actually believe simple protest will have some effect?

And no, I don’t think protestors throwing stones or using clubs would be shot with live ammunition. Tear gas, bean bags, water cannons, and other non-lethal devices would be employed.

@time

You could try to initiate legal action but you would first have to answer for various charges such as resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and a host of others that would put your claim in doubt. Charges that you would have been found guilty of.[/quote]
I don’t think UC Davis kids were charged with anything and they did receive settlements. Almost all G20 charges were dismissed, and contrary to your assertions they certainly weren’t found guilty of anything. Scot Olsen wasn’t charged with anything, so far as I know.

[quote=“time, post:251, topic:24467”]Most people in the US are well aware of the fact that the police will shoot your ass. That’s why you don’t see protesters in the US carrying clubs.

Oh. So protesters in Ukraine were unaware that they could be shot, and it’s because they were unaware that they were carrying clubs. And they must have been incredibly stupid, because even after people started getting shot they remained unaware that they ould be shot, and so continued to carry clubs.

Maybe people in the US don’t carry clubs because they don’t believe that violence is an appropriate response, either by themselves or by the police. And maybe this explains why police in the US don’t respond the same way that Yanukovich’s police did.