Putin calls for invasion of Ukraine; UN security council meets

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@bwv812

The fact that there are six identifiable levels of force does not mean that it is policy to use them on protestors. I mean, you could say that this link means that it is policy to shoot people who double park, or who take pictures of police.

It is policy. There is no other separate policy for protesters. Try to find one.

Yes, it is the same policy for people who double park or take pictures of police. Police use the policy of [The Use-of-Force Continuum][1] for all dealings with the public. Level one will take care of most parking tickets but it can result in level six.

[1]: The Use-of-Force Continuum[quote=“bwv812, post:256, topic:24467”]
OK. Refute the claim that the US objects when other nations use lethal force to deal with protestors.Refute the claim that the US doesn’t use lethal force on protestors (something you still haven’t done, and which a link describing six different levels of force doesn’t do, either).
[/quote]

I have. I can lead you to water but I can’t make you drink.

@bwv812

Hmm. So these protestors didn’t get the idea when they finally did break out firearms? In contrast, the police officer who gives me a jaywalking ticket also caries a gun. I don’t expect him to shoot me. Nor do I expect to be shot at OWS just because police there also have guns.

Fight the officer that gives you a jaywalking ticket with a weapon in your hand and see what happens. Video tape it and post it for me. Then we can talk about those six levels again.

@bwv812

I see. When it comes to rogue officers and isolated incidences of violence by police that prompt investigations, lawsuits, and apologies, you have no problem saying this reflects the official position and policy in the US. And earlier you suggested that because there were two or three other Americans participating in this thread that my thought on the US must be illegitimate and uninformed. But when we have mass protests, you change tunes and say that the protestors only reflect a small percentage of the population, even though they represent at least as much of the country as commenters in this thread represent the US or rogue officers represent US security forces.

Your thoughts on the US are illegitimate and uniformed. Just run right out into the street, declare yourself a protester and disrupt your community. When the police come, arm yourself and resist arrest. Let’s see how it turns out for you. Prove your point and please document it, preferably with video. Let’s make your protest about police brutality, just to make the result,ironic.

@bwv812

Regardless of what you think, however, the fact remains that Yanukovich and his pro-Russia government were deeply unpopular in the country.

I think the election in December would have cleared that up, don’t you?

@bwv812

So far as I can tell you’ve picked your side, too. Protestors willing to risk death, and who continue to protest after hundreds of their compatriots have been shot by the police, tell us nothing about what anyone thinks in Ukraine because they are only a small percent of the population. I’m sure everyone else loves Yanukovich and Russia, because they give much better protection to protestors, human rights, democracy, and civil liberties than the US does. It’s a wonder you haven’t applied for citizenship there.

I don’t have a side, despite what you may think, in Ukraine’s choices. I could care less if they are pro-Russian or pro-EU. I do care that we’ve spent billions of tax dollars telling the Ukrainians what is best for them and I do care that the US State Dept is rigging the election and deciding for themselves who should be Ukraine’s leader. The US does not give two shits about the people of Ukraine any more than they gave two shits about the people in Rwanda. What they do care about is weakening Russia and they are getting Ukrainians killed to do it. Ukraine = Geopolitical hotspot. Rwanda = nothing. Ukraine = International incident. Rwanda = nothing. My rather simple position has stayed the same. The US is involved in Ukraine for US interests not the interests of Ukraine. Your moral high ground argument is hooey. Ukraine can be in the EU or it can be aligned with Russia. I do not care. US involvement getting people killed, whether it is protesters in Kiev or troops anywhere in the world I am firmly against.