Because the City is neither required to use–nor able to afford–the extreme/absurdist measures you’ve proposed. The City has neither the resources, nor the time, nor the money to finance and manage private investigators to track down delinquent property owners, which is why the law requires property owners to keep the City informed and their addresses-of-record up-to-date.
The people complaining about “the nanny state,” are the ones who seem to need a nanny to remind them to pay their bills.
I have a theory that the city finds any effort to assess taxes, modify taxes, etc. on that particular property an overwhelming hassle.
It seems like everyone is forgetting that this was for a tax bill of about $900. One that hasn’t been paid for 30 years. How much should they be willing to do to recover $900? Hire PI’s?? Seriously? According to movies those guys are expensive! So spend and additional $900 to recover $900? Why the hell would they do that? After 30 years of sending bills and getting no response I think the city is well within it’s right to sell the burden off.
I am not outraged by any means. But suggesting someone should have caught on due to the public legal notice in the paper is rather absurd. I am the furthest thing from a rich person living in a gated community, but don’t take the paper. And if I did, I wouldn’t read the legal notices.
Honestly, it smacks of victim blaming. This is a government paper work snafu that resulted in another rich person snatching up land (evil speculators!) If it inconvenienced or affected anyone but a rich gated community, everyone else would be outraged.
Reading the NPR article, the residents paid the HOA $500/mo, so they should have handled this. But a lot of HOAs are half assed and miss managed. If
What is the name of the HOA? I am betting one could find it fairly easily with out the use of a PI. Do they pay any other city issued bill such as water or utilities? Hell if I had the actual name, we could all maybe google it.
The people in the news articles got a hold of the HOA. The new owners appeared to have gotten a hold of the HOA. They aren’t a secret cult tasked with keeping the decedents of Jesus Christ a secret, they are an HOA.
Sorry if I misread you; your choice of wording seemed outraged.
I also am the furthest thing from a rich person living in a gated community (perhaps we’re neighbors! Hi!), and I often read a physical newspaper and do indeed skim the legal notices. In other words, it is never safe to assume your own behavior is universal. As I recall, the speculators in the case found out about the auction in … the legal notices.
A paperwork snafu would be one where, for example, a clerk mis-entered the address and that’s why they never got the notice. Or maybe the new address of record was never updated. This was purely down to inattention on the part of the residents and their HOA. It isn’t victim-blaming, it’s making popcorn and watching consequences unfold.
I agree wholly with your view of HOAs!
No, it isn’t a “government paper work snafu,” and no one is “victim blaming” because no one is a victim.
The property owners–not the City–are responsible for maintaining their address-of-record so the City can contact them about tax changes, bills, service, etc.
The property owners are responsible for paying their $14.00 yearly tax. For thirty years, the City contacted the owners about the outstanding tax bill but the property owners didn’t respond. That’s the property owners’ fault, not the City’s. (see #1)
The property owners are responsible for managing their HOA. When their accountant stopped working for the HOA thirty years ago, the property owners and the HOA were responsible for working with the accountant to update records, addresses, etc. Again, the responsibility belongs to the property owners, not the City. (see #1)
All of that neatly ignores the fact that the City contacts the HOA at either the address or through whoever is listed on record with the City, at the address the property owners provide and maintain with the City. The City doesn’t use Google to track down HOAs, the City contacts the people listed on the documents submitted and maintained by the people themselves. (see #1)
I know it’s easy and fun to blame The Government when people are wronged, but in this case, the property owners failed to pay their taxes, and they have no one to blame but themselves. The end.
That is a much better analogy, thanks. As you mention, it doesn’t scale perfectly since one wouldn’t expect the mayor of San Francisco to personally know Farmer John. Though ironically, this private street is one of the very few places where one might reasonably expect the mayor (et al.) to know at least one resident! However, a larger city also requires more administrators. Which further reduces the chance of someone both seeing the delinquent tax bill and knowing someone on that street.
And the city did do the bare minimum of effort. By sending out those notices lost in the void. Hiring a PI is way outside the scope of reasonable effort, not just because of the relatively small gain but because I for one would really not want to see city government given a precedent of tracking people down with contractors to collect on a bill! Holy moly, but I don’t see that turning out well at all. And by the way, the city couldn’t legally tack debt collection expenses onto a tax bill.
You didn’t explicitly argue that the HOA was blameless, but by vociferously arguing that the city should have worked harder to prevent the situation, you are downplaying the HOA’s responsibilities, if not outright absolving them.
Where is the corporation in this story? There’s an association and a city and a couple. Maybe the title company? They don’t seem to have acted badly, unless by tipping the speculators’ hand when doing the title check.
That’s a nice short description of how everyone’s everything account should have been foreign-owned for half the year or better.
The property owners are probably the least to blame. Since it went through the HOA they would probably have NO IDEA this was even a thing.
The HOA certainly deserves part of the blame. Though a YEARLY $14 tax they didn’t get a bill for might be easy to overlook. It is also possible whomever took it over was unaware. There hasn’t been evidence they purposefully refused to pay the bill. By all accounts the current people doing it didn’t know about it.
The government didn’t try very hard to find the current HOA address to send the bills. Not that surprising considering the county here kept trying to charge me for a car I sold 5 years ago after repeatedly showing that it was sold and gone for years. They still have wrong addresses on my current car, despite the last time I was there to pay I told them my new address. I mean based on that experience alone I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent them the new address in 1980 and it never got updated.
But yes, I shouldn’t assume that they were inept. They probably didn’t even try. Like I said, the new owners and the paper got a hold of the HOA, why couldn’t a city clerk? I mean, I wouldn’t try too hard to get a $900 bill paid if I could turn around and sell it for $90k.
Oh well, I am glad we have here a champion for the government and their collection of fees and taxes and confiscation of property! I thought I was the only authoritarian here for a little bit. Lucky for us it was evil rich people who lived there - like Diana Feinstein, and not the little people who usually get fucked over.
Nope. The property owners manage/are the HOA. HOA = Home Owners’ Association.
The government didn’t try very hard to find the current HOA address to send the bills.
The City sends notices to the address provided and maintained by the property owners. Providing and maintaining that information is the property owner’s responsibility, not the City’s.
I shouldn’t assume that they were inept. They probably didn’t even try.
The City tried for 30 years.
Like I said, the new owners and the paper got a hold of the HOA, why couldn’t a city clerk?
Because by law, the City must contact the person(s) or entity at the address provided and maintained by the property owners. Providing and maintaining that information is the property owner’s responsibility, not the City’s. The City can’t send notices to multiple addresses and people it finds on Google; that’s not how real estate law, tax law, and title law work. The City must use the information with which it’s been provided in the documents supplied by the owners. The property owners told the City, “Contact us here,” and that’s what the City did–if the owners wanted that information changed, they should have told the City.
Have you been a member of an HOA? Because almost everyone who belongs to one has zero direct involvement. Most people begrudgingly belong to them. I said the HOA certainly had some responsibility. However, the original lapse in that could have been in 1980 and you have 30 years of people ignorant to the fact that there is an issue. If you got elected to your HOA, how would you know whether this bill that no one has ever seen is owed or not? Why would you even think to look into it?
Tried how? Sending the bill to the same address that kept coming back? Isn’t that the definition of madness? Like I said, I’ve had government fail to update basic info on my tax bill despite GOING to the place and spelling it out for them. It is entirely possible they were sent the new address and it never got updated. But that is just a hypothetical.
Look people and business move ALL THE TIME. Amazingly a lot of it gets all updated, but you can’t tell me something doesn’t get lost or misfiled or just not sent in all the time. The government at what every level should make no effort to correct that data? Public servants indeed.
Not my job - amiright?
Yes.
Because almost everyone who belongs to one has zero direct involvement. Most people begrudgingly belong to them.
Sorry, but neither of those statements are true.
I said the HOA certainly had some responsibility. However, the original lapse in that could have been in 1980 and you have 30 years of people ignorant to the fact that there is an issue. If you got elected to your HOA, how would you know whether this bill that no one has ever seen is owed or not? Why would you even think to look into it?
I have no idea why the property owners failed to maintain/update their address-of-record with the City. Maybe they thought someone else was handling the matter. Maybe they were uninterested, or too busy to care. Maybe they thought the City had forgotten so they decided not to say anything and got a little freebie. Ultimately none of that is relevant, because the responsibility was theirs and not the City’s.
Tried how? Sending the bill to the same address that kept coming back? . . . It is entirely possible they were sent the new address and it never got updated.
In the article, both the City and the property owners said the City sent notices to the address provided by the property owners, and as we keep telling you, keeping that information current/accurate is ultimately the property owner’s responsibility, not the City’s.
Look people and business move ALL THE TIME. Amazingly a lot of it gets all updated
Yes, because as the spokesperson at the Treasurer-Tax Collector’s office said: “Ninety-nine percent of property owners in San Francisco know what they need to do, and they pay their taxes on time–and they keep their mailing address up to date.”
Not my job - amirite?
You’re right! Paying your taxes on time and keeping your mailing address up to date is not the City’s job. As I explained upthread, the City can’t just send notices to random people found with Google; that’s not how the law works or is written.
Interesting to know that the HOA didn’t care about buying back the property, however they are suing to block the sale, which probably will be more costly then the back taxes that were owed.
Sadly - although ‘I’ use ISO8601 as my datey ideoformat - I’ve long ago given up on the idea that ‘we’ will adopt it any time soon.
You mean we’re not in Dynastic Year 951?
O. M. G.
I appreciate the sentiment - let’s try and put it differently and see whether that makes a difference in your view.
As this story shows there can be pretty draconian consequences of not paying your taxes.
It is for that reason that the methods the city is to use to tell people how much taxes they have to pay and whether they are in default and what will happen if they still don’t pay are specifically mandated by law.
Equally, tax payers are required by law to provide and keep up to date an address of record.
Given your view of public servants and their incompetence and lack of desire to do the sensible thing, would you really want a system that says that the city has to take ‘reasonable steps’ to contact defaulting owners?
As for this - because it’s your responsibility to do so? I would expect the HOA managers to provide accounts for the last year, a budget for next year - basic stuff like that.
If there’s no item for property taxes, I’d expect someone to notice that and ask why not.
I must admit my first thought on seeing photos of the street was: I hope this place is featured on McMansion Hell.
My guess (and it is just a guess), either a combination of the first three or the old accountants moved or went out of business.
There don’t seem to be any accountants there now.
The land was sold at auction, the way the city prepares for that is by filing public notices. Same as when poor peoples land is taken for auction.
Doing the bare minimum is what happened.
Hiring a PI would cost more than the tax bill.
The cognitive dissonance, it’s too much for me.
