yep, the people on here defending it by the looks of things.
You think maybe there might be a reason that women are wary of men and act defensively? Or is it just because itās all in our head and weāre crazy?
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In certain situations it certainly makes sense, but having a default position to treat all unknown men as potential rapists is not something that is justified by the reality of actual risks in the real world.
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But you have no idea why someone might have the default response? Maybe they were attacked and are now suffering from PTSD? Do you shake your head and act dismissively when soldiers come back from a warzone for having mental issues that need to be dealt with?
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So you think we should behave towards all people in the same manner that we should behave towards people who suffer from PTSD (because that article is talking about how men should behave around all women)? What about other mental health issues should we take into account in our interactions with strangers, where should we draw the line?
Iām saying that being sexually assaulted can lead to PTSD and you canāt know that about women.
My suggestion would be to treat people with dignity and respect.
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At the end of the day, sexual aggression, assault and rape are not nearly rare enough. However good I am, I have the same equipment as the vast majority of rapists. While I will resist any insinuation that I am a threat by virtue of being a man, I will absolutely do what I can to avoid causing someone fear. If the term or the article give the impression that the writer doesnāt really believe that a male reader is a good person, Iām happy to ignore that and go with the main point that there are clear ways to make women more comfortable in public.
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Iām saying that being sexually assaulted can lead to PTSD and you canāt know that about women.
Of course it can, and as someone who suffered from a fairly mild bout of it over 10 years ago (thankfully only lasted for a month or so) I can certainly empathise, but you didnāt answer my questions.
My suggestion would be to treat people with dignity and respect.
yep, it goes both ways though. treating strangers as potential rapists is not treating them with dignity nor respect.
The question about mental illness and how far we should go to accommodate it? I didnāt answer it, because I donāt have an answer. And I donāt think I need to have an answer, because itās a societal problem, not a āme onlyā problem. We have to work these issues out via democratic practices, Iād argue and reasoned discourse and debate.
I donāt think being wary of strangers is treating people as potential rapists. If someone makes a comment to me in an enclosed elevator, do I need to roll out the welcome mat for them? Or am I allowed to be a bit protective?
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At the end of the end of the day maybe this is just a social problem certain classes of Americans need to deal with (as @jsroberts talked about before), coming from a country where strangers are generally friendly and at ease with one another (Ireland), and currently living in a city where theyāre not (London), maybe Iām better equipped to see the problems with the general approach being suggested in this article than you are. Iām well aware of the specific problems women face, as Iāve been told enough stories from family members and friends (nothing too serious thankfully), but those things have only made them cautious in situations where itās warranted, not led to the level of paranoia being suggested here.
So, basically, you understand these issues better than me? Is that what youāre saying? Once again, shut up, lady, the menfolk are talking?
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Youāre great at employing that rhetorical super-weapon. 10/10 for technique, doesnāt make you very good at honest debate though.
Iām sorry, how am I not being āhonestā? Do you think Iām tricking you or lying to you? How soā¦?
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bringing my gender into the debate is dishonest, it has nothing to do with anything Iām saying. If you have a problem with the content of my opinions, then tackle that, donāt go for a cheap rhetorical device simply meant to shut down debate.
The whole point is about gender, actually. And I was not talking about you specifically when I said āpenisā, I was talking about men who specifically say that they understand something (even if itās about womenās specific experiences) that women canāt possibly understand when they discuss gender, which is some sort of objective reality thatās supposed to exist around these issues.
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You were talking about me specifically when you said:
āIs that what youāre saying? Once again, shut up, lady, the menfolk are talking?ā
Which I would have hoped was clearly not what I was saying.
some sort of objective reality thatās supposed to exist around these issues.
There clearly is some sort of objective reality around these issues, i.e. the actual risk any individual may face in a random interaction with a person to whom they are not acquainted.
Okay. I guess weāre done here, too. Iām sorry.
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Well, gender and culture. RW was in a foreign country and made it clear that she had expected extra consideration of her boundaries because she was in an unfamiliar environment. EG obviously didnāt get this, (IMO) partly because he was a guy and partly because this kind of vigilance is not really that common in Ireland. Was this a reasonable expectation of hers? Maybe, but Iāve never found it worthwhile to expect people in another culture to follow your own. There is a fear that comes from being a vulnerable woman with a stranger, but stranger danger seems to be a much stronger fear in America. I discussed this with my wife, who strongly agreed that it was not appropriate and that she would have been nervous in that situation, but also could totally see me doing something like that ten years ago (absolutely not in a sexual way, just wanting to talk further about the topic with someone who has more experience and not realising that it was very inappropriate in the circumstances). I just didnāt grow up in this kind of culture and it took a while before I got why someone might feel that way in a normal environment. itās a pity, because the Irish are famous for their welcomes:
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Itās stronger in America, because there is less expectation of safety in public for American women. So, yeah, itās cultural, I agree. There seems to have been much more active work in eradicating sexism in other countries than there has been here, Iād guess.
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This is not to say that Ireland is free of problems in that area (this is an older article, but I havenāt lived there in the last few years so canāt comment on how much things have changed):
In a 2003 study by Rape Crisis Network Europe, Ireland had the lowest rate of conviction for rape (1%) among 21 European states. The UN Committee on the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women has expressed concern about the prevalence of violence against women and girls in Ireland, low prosecution and conviction rates, and inadequate funding for organisations that provide support services to victims.
