San Francisco rejects permit application for Bird and Lime scooters

But clearly that was not the issue pressed here. Because it wasn’t clear that it met the definition of litter and the Board of Supervisors wasn’t willing to chase that avenue in a court.

I think a bunch of companies found a legal loop hole. Tried to exploit it. Then the city legalized it, but illegally punished those who exploited the loophole first.

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I can’t think of any business model that depends on using public streets and sidewalks that DOESN’T require some kind of permit. Hot dog carts, taxis, car rental agencies, newspaper kiosks, vending machines, cell phone towers, farmers’ markets—all these need to have some kind of permit from the city before putting their stuff on public property.

But it would have been silly to expect cities to have permitting processes in place for all those business models before anyone thought up those services in the first place. You have to first come up with the idea for a newspaper kiosk in order to figure out how to create a permitting process for newspaper kiosks.

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I tried a Bird scooter while in Santa Monica on a work trip a month and a half ago or so. Decided I wanted one of these things for my 1.5-mile door-to-door commute in Baltimore, so I bought a model from Glion.

It is awesome. :slight_smile: Takes the same 7 minutes as driving, for a few pennies in electricity a day.

I called my auto insurance company and told them what my current driving mileage is these days, hoping I could get a better rate so I wouldn’t have to go shopping. In less than five minutes they knocked off $350/year. Huzzah!

The thing is great, folds up small, is light, has a handle that pops out and little wheels you can pull it around on. It’s made my commute a lot more fun. :slight_smile:

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And if you were selling hotdogs before your town created a permitting process for them you shouldn’t be punished later for the non-crime of running a hotdog stand without a permit.

Leaving private property cluttering up public streets and sidewalks was an established no-no before Bird and Lime started doing it. Getting a permit is what gives businesses an exception to that already extant rule.

If they had done this the right way they would have approached the city beforehand, explaining “we have an idea for a business model that involves leaving scooters on public sidewalks and we’d like to work with the city to find a way to do it legally.” Instead, they took the “better to seek forgiveness than ask permission” route.

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Dude I walk that far to the bus every morning. Why the hell would you drive that? (not saying you did drive that and I would be tempted in the Baltimore winter for sure)

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See what happens when people get a taste of the Southern California lifestyle? People drive EVERYWHERE out here. :wink:

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Mostly time. I go to bed late and sleep poorly, so I sleep in as late as I can, while still getting to work at a reasonable time. If driving saves me 15 minutes, that’s 15 minutes more sleep.

I get walking and exercise in, don’t worry. :wink:

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Sidewalks and streets are a public space. That does not mean unregulated. In fact, it tends to mean you are generally on thin ice if you do anything that isn’t “typical” of a public space.

Starting a commercial venture of any type that imposes itself on the public space like sidewalks needs to be permitted. It’s as simple as that. Bird and Lime knew exactly what they were doing and the legal risk they were taking. It has worked out for them in some places, not others. I’m glad that Baltimore (where I live) and these vendors seem to be getting along.

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And I’ve made it clear in an early post that the Board of Supervisors were not going after this angle. You can insist they do, but current reality is that they aren’t treating it as littering. So all you have is an analogy and not a legal position.

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Pretty much every town has faced the issue of stores or independent people putting a table on the sidewalk with things to sell. Over the years (decades, centuries) there have been regulations put in place in response to this. Because not regulating it gets out of hand.

But it is not at all unusual for something to be unregulated. The default position is not that you need to ask permission. The default position is that you can do whatever you want as long as you don’t run afoul of existing regulation, ordinances, codes, orders, and laws.

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Can confirm, rode one today for the first time. It was a blast!

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This news could be rather embarrassing for Lime who moved their HQ to the gorgeous building at 1 Sansome St. in San Francisco last month. Employees may have to take a Skip to work.

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Bird and Lime were banned in most of Boston as well. They came in and dumped their scooters all over the place anyway.

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Nothing illegal but massive littering and obstructing public sidewalks.

You’re right the city should have treated them as litter and destroyed the scooters with no recourse.

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The image at the top sums up the problem with these things - three of them partially obstructing the pavement and making it far too narrow for someone in a wheelchair or pushing a large baby buggy. The techbros behind these companies don’t seem to have any regard for non-users or their host communities.

Fortunately they are illegal in the UK and may the law never change.

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None? It is just the cost of doing business… I mean the city needs their slice of the pie too, right?

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