Maybe it’s different in Canada, but for the most part in the US, teachers aren’t fully in control of what they teach in the class room? Curriculum tends to be decided on the state level or the local level. Is that the case up there, too?
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Maybe we shouldn’t base educational policy on how we imagine white supremacists and fascists will feel about it?
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So, we should be worried about them the same as we’re worried about the far right, which is the mainstream of the GOP right now? Okay then. Once again, assuming that people like this are anti-white or just wishing to replace white power with minority power is playing right into their “white replacement theory narrative.” It’s not remotely true and it’s not something that the vast majority of activists are seeking. We shouldn’t act like it’s the same problem as white supremacy, because it’s not by any objective standard.
You don’t seem to believe that the struggle over education is part of the rise of the far right. The far right has been consistently attacking education for decades now, because they understand the critical role it plays in shaping individuals world views. They’ve been funding school board candidates to ensure that they can keep public education as a vehicle for white supremacy, among other things. They have pushed for the gutting of higher education precisely because they understand that the knowledge produced in the humanities shapes public education across the board. They are working to keep diversity out of the public education system. We know this because they have said as much. Listen to them and believe what they say.
If we live in fear of pushing for inclusivity because it will be a recruitment tool, then we’ve already lost. The far right understands that this is a battle fought in the culture as much as it is about controlling the levers of power. You are fundamentally missing that critical point.
I’m not sure how we push them back out of power without expanding the canon, among other important cultural work.
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Aaaand, we already know whatever we do or say in the good fight will be twisted and used that way anyway. Just look at the ridiculous narrative around CRT. 
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It’s a weird idea to me that we can only focus on “keeping them out of power” when, a) they have been and continue to BE in power, and b) they are very much operating on multiple fronts here… We don’t win by ignoring one of the more critical fronts, which is education.
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If anything I wish sci-fi were given more of a chance. When I went to school, it was treated at about the same level as a comic book would be (also not fair). I would welcome adding things like Dune, or the Left Hand of Darkness or Foundation, or…well I’m sure there are others that are newer than these, as well. I would say Dhalgren, but there is no way that’d get past today’s right wing.
The real problem, however, is how women and writers of color, from whatever genre, are excluded from public education, from a variety of genres. Some of the classic sci-fi has the exact same pale, male problem as the classics.
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I would also add that tagging this post as “Banned Books” is annoying. I hate the idea that deciding not to include a book in a curriculum (there are literally millions of books not included in every curriculum in the world) constitutes “banning” a book, rather than simply deciding what should be taught.
I feel like this kind of language is how the right paints the left.
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Sounds like you’re completely oblivious to how their being white male still made them a helluva a lot more like you than like a classmate who was, say, a black or Asian American girl. And to how alienating that difference can be to non-white-readers of “classic” (white male) literature.
And so, it sounds like you’re more generally oblivious to just how deeply ingrained patriarchal white supremacy is to the western canon, culture, and traditions.
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“But it’s a classic” is sometimes a useful riposte when arguing against agitators who wantt to ban “SICK FILTH”.
Exactly. As far as being more inclusive of genre fiction - sure, let’s do that. But let’s not repeat the mistake of centering white men once again when doing that. LeGuin is excellent, of course (and is Delaney, though his stuff is pretty heady probably more suited to a college course I’d argue), but how about focusing on diverse voices across genres of literature?
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Shrug. We seem to be on the same side, AFAICT, but differ only on tactics. I do think multiple things can happen but I do think that efforts have to be prioritized. If someone not very attached to politics looks up and sees very little happening on the class front for them, but get the perception that liberals seem to think a “perfect” canon is just as important as kitchen table issues…all I can say is that it’s likely to create more Republicans. I don’t know what to do about that, but I fear it’s true.
It’s like watching Maher after Trump “won”. That “liberal redneck” guy said in response to some things in a very similar vein as here (concerns of white males being centered and so on) and asked…“but do you want to WIN?” That really stung to watch it at the time and I fear he’s right. Maher is exhausting to me, but I still cannot tear myself away…but that exchange really stuck with me. I really do fear that much of the left / the Democrats/ the media is basically sleepwalking while we are in the Weimar Republic. I sure hope I’m wrong.
You have very great points about the canon. You have great points that we should not overly concern ourselves with how this will get twisted. But I fear being right may not be enough. Fascists don’t care about the truth. They care only about raw power, and right now, they seek it, and very well may get it in 2022 and 2024.
Sounds good. BTW, what’s your favorite Octavia Butler novel?
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Translation, women and minorities need to sit down and put the “class” struggle first, as if we aren’t also directly impacted in our pocketbooks by misogyny and racism.
Women’s bodily autonomy and Black people being shot by the cops are just as much “kitchen table issues” as wages. Misoggyny has a direct impact on my job, for example. Not being able to access reproductive care has a direct impact on my life. Black people not knowing if they can walk outside and NOT get shot for something trivial has a direct impact on their daily lives. Saying that these are NOT kitchen table issues is a huge part of the problem. Keeping the works of people who deal with these issues in their lives directly out of education keeps people believing that the struggles that we face are not kitchen table issues.
Stop making assumptions about people here. Many of us are NOT “liberals” and many people pushing for inclusive education are not “liberals”, but full on leftists who understand the interconnectedness of education and culture with these larger issues. Understanding people who are not white men as just as fully human is one of the most critical aspects of these struggles.
Doesn’t mean it should be put on the side when people are being brutalized and having their rights stripped away from them.
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I think you are not reading what I’m saying very closely. I’m saying that virtually any reading required a context shift, even if they so happened to be white and/or male. If you want to assume that means I’m oblivious to anyone else’s experiences, I’d say that’s just being unfair. My point is that virtually any lit you care to read is going to (or should) require an effort to understand the characters’ context of time, place, class, etc., and yes, gender and race, too, but those are hardly the only (or even most important) factors. People that want to read something that is exactly like their own experience should perhaps start journaling, if not already, and read that.
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You’re missing the point that it’s easier to understand that context if you share someone’s race and gender, and that for the past couple of centuries of building the literary canon, white men’s experiences have been centered to the exclusion of the rest of us. No matter our gender or race, we’re expected to understand and identify with white men, as the core, even DEFAULT human experience, while white men are not often asked to do that work to understand the rest of us.
We’re all perfectly cognizant that reading any work of literature requires a context shift. That’s pretty basic. But it’s less of a shift if the person looks like you.
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I don’t think you are. Mindy’s side is promoting diversity and opposing fascism. You talk about opposing fascism, but so far the only thing you have actually objected to here is caring about promoting diversity. People who are really on the same side don’t spend all their time going after each other.
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I was sloppy with language in liberals/leftists, sure. And I think I’m done here. You and I seem to be in agreement in all but the tactics, so I’m not going to engage further in hairsplitting. My point about fascists is that none of this will matter if these people seize power. This conversation would not be allowed to happen, most likely, for fear of you and I both being hunted down and murdered by the people we are talking about. If that does not concern you, I’m not sure what to do.
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We can only do that together, across class, gender, and racial lines that have been built to keep us apart. That requires learning about each other’s experiences and that begins in literature classes, often times.
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I think you are not reading what I’m saying very closely.
Oh, I hear you loud and clear, bro. It’s you who’s not getting what we’re saying.
And so, I feel no need to repeat any of it. You appear to be afflicted with White Male Pattern Deafness Syndrome.
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