The basic problem is that we don’t like that BB has the final censure on ‘deleting’ our friends. When many of us have good interactions with people who get banned, we feel the whole site is diminished by ‘good’ contributors being kicked for excessively long periods of time on a first infraction
How about a policy of using a logarithmically escalating series of punishments, e.g. ban for:
1 day
2 days
1 week
2 weeks
1 month
2 months
6 months
1 year
etc.
If you cause havoc the first ban is always for 1 day, the repeat infraction is always for 1 week, etc. Jason said he’d attract complaints for acting unreasonably if he was defied - and lo and behold people are asking for reasonable moderation policies.
Maybe on the mod side, but not on the user side. Or, I’ve never seen any. One moment your post is there, the next… poof. And if it’s not obviously something that violated the rules… well, misunderstandings are easy.
This is precisely why I try to flag, rather than delete, except for stuff that absolutely should not be here, or when a massive number of posts need excising.
That being said, there’s been more than one occasion where I’ve done that only to find posters messaging to ask why soandso’s post wasn’t deleted, so
Either way, my philosophy remains the one above, and I’m absolutely prepared to discuss the topic of any mod action via DM. I feel I have an obligation to explain my actions to the community I am attempting to foster.
It might be nice if, in the event of a deletion, there were some kind of automated notice for the deletee to the effect of why. I know in the few times that I’ve had a post removed that I would have thought was inoffensive that it would have been less jarring (and I’d have been less tempted to publicly contest it) if it hadn’t just vanished from space and time.
On the other hand, that might end up making mod jobs more difficult by providing a focal point for arguments. I dunno.
I would love if a window popped up with deletions, like flags, that allowed us to pick a deletion reason (or enter a custom one) and that sent a response to the deletee. @codinghorror seems to be implying he’s not interested in a technical response to this issue, though.
I personally do try to message people when I delete posts for non-obvious reasons (especially in situations where I’m doing it to clean-up or split a thread that makes their comment an orphan), but depending on the day, there just isn’t time for that. Falcor and I spend a lot of time trying to keep up with you lot already!
I’m fairly sure there’s nothing to gain by encouraging either side of the conversation to “take their ball and go home”. Even if it does feel like one side doesn’t quite see the downside of it.
I think we need to re-contextualise the space for the benefit of not only the non-owning members.
But that also means thinking of them. Perhaps we need a clearer delineation between the Owner/Operator content and the community content?
A different set of rules for each pillar which both sides recognise. More respectful, serious, specific commenting on the BB stuff and a recognition that the tone may be very different in the community side.
If we really trust the community at large to contribute to the task of moderation through flagging and discussion then we should trust that the community will be the best entity to have the most constructive say in exactly what kind of tone to strike.
CH, you are undoubtably a marvel at coding, but you are not skilled at social interaction and I wouldn’t take your word as the final word on how to run a community. Even if you weren’t being gnomic in your comment.
If the “problem” is people, I have to say that there is nothing you can do to get a better class of commentariat. You have to work with what you’ve got, which is a bunch of social apes who never do as they’re told. Look anywhere you like, you’re never going to get a bunch of slans who can see past the layers of skin, bone and muscle into the workings of your brain to see the perfect vision of the community that exists in your or Jason’s head.
Well, it’s not as though we can actually do anything to make him accept that as an ultimatum. The reversal wasn’t a serious proposal, more of a mirror to show how ridiculous the original attitude is.
And thank you for that work. A short explanation can sometimes go a long way in preventing things from reoccurring, especially in cases of misjudgement.
We’re all people here (or fish, or lizards, some have claimed) and sometimes it’s just a bad day. Sometimes it’s a case of “oops, forgot which thread I was in” or saying something we wouldn’t normally say. Your recognition of that, as a mod deserves it’s own recognition. Thank you for what you do.
I hear you, but I have to point out that there’s only one side with an active role here, who can actually de-escalate. All we can do is bitch about the escalation of banning someone permanently for essentially talking back to authority.
The underlying issue isn’t technical in this case, though. And forcing mods to explain every mod decision – even through a multiple choice McDonalds Value Menu form – isn’t going to address this case at all, either.
I think what you are proposing is censorship and prior censorship. There is a thing called “Freedom of speech.” Perhaps you have heard of it?
“If freedom means anything at all, it is the liberty to tell others what they do not want to hear.” If you disagree with what is being said, you have two choices, respond with your reasoning why you disagree or to ignore it and move on. If the person is merely a troll, being ignored will get them to move on themselves. If they are only stating an unpopular opinion and even being obnoxious about ti, That is a right to be granted to all, no matter how vociferously you disagree.
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Or, from another viewpoint, “Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone.”
We agree with Voltaire when he said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”, but paradoxically not with another quote from the same man “il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres”
