Teen arrested after 3D-printing guns

[lizard-of-oz]

@subextraordinaire

So a 14-year-old is independently flushed with cash?

How much cash are we talking about? Even just googling that for a few minutes I found this site that shows an ad for a Glock switch for $36, but the text says you can get them for $18.

Budget 3d printers start at around ~$200 new, and are a lot cheaper used. But lots of kids have 3d printers, or access to one, so he might not even have bought it.

So for all we know it’s a switch for 18 bucks and some filament. He might just have taken the filament from his father’s workshop, or stolen in a shop.

But if the kid has access to a 3d printer and is savy with a computer, he has lots of ways of making money, or he might just do odd jobs here and there, or saved up his allowance.

@DukeTrout

How does a 14 year old have a high-end 3D printer and the ability to order gun parts without oversight?

The “high-end 3D printers” shown in the photo are from Elegoo, you can clearly read the label, and they look like the pre-owned Neptune 3 Pro Elegoo sells on their website form $103.

Anyone with access to a web browser can order shit from China. With a gift card you can do that from any internet cafe. Most kids just do it from a smart phone, because Screen Time and that Android thing has plenty of loopholes. .

This is pretty easy to figure out. There is a huge overlap in intelligence between clever 14-year olds and adult gun nuts who buy that crap.

@subextraordinaire

For all we know, the enterprising teenager could have presold his guns to pay for a future product. If this was the case, this shows serious planning by the 14-year-old and that doesn’t look good for the teen.

For all we know the tools were his father’s, and and the alleged intent to sell firearms is just the usual bullshit police makes up to look important.

I can’t understand why this topic would incite so much wild speculation?

@Otherbrother

Absolutely right, but the onus will be on the police/prosecutors to prove that he made weapons if they’re looking to convict on that charge, so the matter of whether or not there’s evidence will matter a lot.

The article states that they’d have to prove the intent to sell those weapons. Not that he made weapons.

[subextraordinaire]

@lizard-of-oz

I can’t understand why this topic would incite so much wild speculation?

You can’t understand why people are a bit freaked that a 14-year-old is manufacturing guns?

There’s a lot of shit both cops and feds do that I disagree with, but keeping guns out out a 14-year-old’s hands isn’t one of them. Whether he’s for making them for shits and giggles or to sell, it’s wrong on both counts.

[lizard-of-oz]

@subextraordinaire

You can’t understand why people are a bit freaked that a 14-year-old is manufacturing guns?

I’m really curious how you think that would follow from what I wrote.

However, I do understand that you might have thought it’s not that simple and cheap to manufacture guns, and that it freaks you out to learn that you have been mistaken.

How that would lead to wild speculations about the kid’s intentions, about what the parents should have noticed, etc. is still beyond me. Maybe you can help me out and explain that?

@subextraordinaire

There’s a lot of shit both cops and feds do that I disagree with, but keeping guns out out a 14-year-old’s hands isn’t one of them. Whether he’s for making them for shits and giggles or to sell, it’s wrong on both counts.

It’s wrong on both counts, and it’s also a consequence of gun culture either way. The cops can’t fix that, I’m afraid. However, if it was for “shits and giggles”, as you put it, and the cops now manage to frame it as an “intent to sell”, that would haunt a 14-year old for the rest of his life. I think you would not be ok with that, correct?

[subextraordinaire]

Maybe because twice you’ve come across as condescending.

@lizard-of-oz

Jesus fucking Christ, There’s an awful lot of speculation going on here about a 14-year old kid, and all based on a picture. That is pretty wild, I must say.

@lizard-of-oz

I can’t understand why this topic would incite so much wild speculation?

If that’s not how you meant to sound, then

@lizard-of-oz

However, if it was for “shits and giggles”, as you put it, and the cops now manage to frame it as an “intent to sell”, that would haunt a 14-year old for the rest of his life. I think you would not be ok with that, correct?

If you read the story, the one cop seemed pretty empathetic toward the kid, so I think you’re—what’s the word you used?—speculating? about the motive of the cops. We also don’t know what the feds will be doing with this case.

[FGD135]

Chris Rock -- Bullet Control (HD)

[robertmckenna]

@Carbonman

I knew right from wrong by age 14

As people who have come through fascism point out: you can pretty much tell who’ll be an enthusiastic fascist. You can tell in school. You can tell in work.

[Mister44]

@anothernewbbaccount

I was under the impression banks had some reticence about issuing cards to juveniles. Maybe US is different and maybe it has changed now that cards are needed for everything but I think I
recall ‘junior’ bank/savings accounts not issuing cards to under-age customers in the UK not so many years ago.

I dunno. My kid has had one for awhile, and she just turned 18. When I was 16 I got a checking account so I could access my money (before that only a savings account). I imagine it was issued with parental consent.

Also, it is pretty popular for grandmas to fill a pre-paid Visa card for birthdays etc. They work just like any other Visa card and no one asks for your age over the internet to buy stuff.

@anothernewbbaccount

Unmyelated brain teenage risk-taking may be mitigation, but is not a defence.

Oh for sure. I am just speculating why someone would take that risk. It won’t be a viable defense in court. Though it may affect sentencing.

@anon47182935

I have trouble believing they’re all test parts.

Just going off what I can see, some of those look really rough. But maybe they just aren’t cleaned up (The one at the top in the middle looks like a failed glob.) But the image isn’t very high quality,

If he was selling prints, it should be easy to prove via finding people he sold to or communications on his phone. I am just saying a bunch of prints alone isn’t enough evidence to prove you were selling them.

Hell, I have even seen people print up batches to turn in on police buy backs. They have caught on to this and offer a smaller amount of unfinished prints.

@CoyoteDen

I can’t help but wonder just how functional and safe those lowers would be.

How many rounds do you think you could fire before something broke and maybe blew up in your hand?

Well, from what I see, none of them look like they are currently functional. They lack the extra parts needed to slap on an upper or a slide and barrel to fire.

But if they were finished, assuming they were printed correctly and of the right material, they can fire safely for thousands of rounds. 3D printing has come along in a huge way in the last 10 years. The whole “it will blow up in your hand” isn’t true any more.* The receiver parts like the grip of a pistol or the lower of an AR type aren’t containing any of the parts that include the exploding bits. They are just a platform for the upper receiver, barrel, and bolt/slide and barrel (which are made of metal) to attach to.

I’ve seen full sized 3D printed battle rifles in 7.62 fired for hundreds of rounds. If a print does fail, it usually is a crack and the part can be replace. In Myanmar the rebels fighting against the military junta are using 3D printed guns.

*There is a risk of that happening with any firearm, so use safety devices and caution if making your own.

[anon47182935]

@DukeTrout

How does a 14 year old have a high-end 3D printer and the ability to order gun parts without oversight?

Those aren’t anything close to high-end 3D printers. They’re Elegoo Neptunes (not sure exact model/size since I’m not an expert on the line and it’s one low-res picture). They run between $150-$400 and are solid budget/mid-tier options. High end in the consumer space, you’re talking about a Prusa MK4S ($800/$1100 depending on if you buy kit or assembled) or a Bambu X1 ($1200). Totally possible as something the kid saved up and bought or got as a birthday/christmas present, and not something you’d generally be concerned about if you’re dealing with a kid who likes making stuff.

[ficuswhisperer]

As a 14 year old…

I did plenty of illegal/stupid/dangerous shit
I liked making and building stuff
I thought guns were pretty cool

Never once did that Venn diagram combine all 3 things in the center.

Judging by some of the comments here, I guess that makes me some sort of weird outlier?

[anon47182935]

Did you have easy access to 3d printing? It was possible to build your own guns with other tools, but they’d all be a lot less common and more dangerous for a 14 year old to use.

@Mister44

Just going off what I can see, some of those look really rough. But maybe they just aren’t cleaned up (The one at the top in the middle looks like a failed glob.) But the image isn’t very high quality,

If he was selling prints, it should be easy to prove via finding people he sold to or communications on his phone. I am just saying a bunch of prints alone isn’t enough evidence to prove you were selling them.

No argument here. I’m persuaded that the quantity indicates something more than just test prints; maybe he was attempting to build multiples for testing purposes, maybe it was in case he screwed one up during assembly and didn’t want to wait hours and hours for another one to print, maybe a lot of things.

[ficuswhisperer]

@anon47182935

It was possible to build your own guns with other tools, but they’d all be a lot less common and more dangerous for a 14 year old to use.

I see. So you’re saying that it’s the tools that are the problem?

[chenille]

@DukeTrout

Teenagers don’t have the same decision-making capability as adults as a population

Which is why the legal system handles them differently from adults, but the idea that a fourteen year old doesn’t have any idea of right and wrong is still ridiculous.

[fuzzyfungus]

I wonder if he was using something like PrintJobHistory while working. It’s not entirely uncommon for ordinary printers(mostly the bigger ones) to retain some print history; but given the amount of fine tuning that goes into the FDM stuff that can be an actively sought feature rather than just a vendor or IT-imposed metering thing.

Unless getting caught on the imports was just a stroke of extraordinarily bad luck I strongly suspect that he left metaphorical(and perhaps literal) fingerprints somewhere on the production and distribution steps. Secrecy is hard and people are terrible at it.

[gatto]

@subextraordinaire

I’ve seen your posts with your kids. I have no doubt that if a 3-D printer was suddenly delivered, you’d probably ask questions, and even trying it out

what my friends would do when they were stealing credit card numbers and buying computer equipment ( and/or explosives ) was splice the neighborhood line to make a trunk call, then order to an abandoned house or construction site

yes, one of my friends nearly blew his ear off creating his own rocket. a little life long hearing damage probably made him a bit more cautious. maybe.

teenagers can be very clever without being very smart. they were all super lucky not to get caught, or get themselves or someone else dead. and as adults, they know that… but it just seemed fun to them at the time