The Economist: Hard Right election win in Germany takes it into "uncharted territory"

[lizard-of-oz]

@Mathieu_Mantrant_O_D

Hi from France where we have the same far right problem, I find it quite dangerous to dismiss them by saying “the AfD can achieve nothing”, it is only a matter of time.

Definitely, I’m was to trying to dismiss them, I was just referring to the fact that at the moment the AfD does not govern, and thus cannot decide on policy.

@Doctor_Faustus

But it is only a matter of time before normalisation kicks in and the center-right feels emboldened to discuss coalition.

Agreed, the difference between the center right and the far right is not in kind, but only in degree.

And on average, the German population is pretty conservative, 50% of Germans would vote either center right or far right, even though across the country “only” 16% support the AfD.

That is a major source of the problems, because the center right constantly tries to push ideas that benefit the far right. And they are to blind to see that, even though this is really obvious.

@Doctor_Faustus

We can’t rely on social norms and shame as the only defense against the shameless.

In the short term, I think the only chance we have is addressing where people get their misinformation, and using the law where ever possible to stringently ban activities that go against our constitution. I can’t see why we’re not doing that more.

But that is, from my perspective, enforcing social norms, isn’t it?

However in the long run, that’s not enough, we need policy that benefits the people (and the planet) - in short, policy that comes from a left of center mindset - but there is no majority for that. Even if you count the BSW as left of center - which I don’t necessarily subscribe to - they would not get even 40% of the vote.

So what we will get after the next election probably a return to the status quo of the previous administration, the one that was holding back progress for 16 years. If we’re lucky, that is.

A sad thing, really, that so many people vote against their own interests,

@Mathieu_Mantrant_O_D

You are correct, they are shameless, the further we advance in time, the less guilt and shame exists in the radical right. The memory of historical events fade away. I can assure you that normalisation has already kicked in France.

The shamelessness that comes with willful ignorance is really something to behold. I’m often at a loss how to even hold up a conversation with those people.

@Mathieu_Mantrant_O_D

The diversity (pun intended!) of the extremist movements is quite astounding, ranging from catholic integrists to neo-pagan new age hippy home-schooler conspiracists, passing through all the shades of shady black nazis to brown shirted normies!

I have no idea what’s up with that in France with that, but in Germany there was also a worrying number of islamist contribution to the protests against Israel’s policy in responding to the Hamas attack. These people also support an extremist ideology that has a pretty broad overlap with the far right - the most substantial differences appears to be the preferred style of beard, and whether or not they condone the consumption of alcohol.