Well, I’d like to try making it more difficult for criminals to get firearms.
I’d also like to make it easier for law-abiding citizens to get them. I think both could be accomplished pretty easily, without violating anyone’s rights.
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Okay, but the first half of this was your argument about why straw purchases will still happen so it wasn’t worth trying to stop them, and the second part of this statement is exactly why transfers should have to clear the background check.
I’m not convinced we’ve ever created a 100% perfect system, so let’s give up?
Bullshit, that’s a business. It may be a “grey area” now but the point is it shouldn’t be a grey area, this activity needs to stop. Requiring background checks on all transfers would show very quickly who’s acting as unlicensed dealers.
This has nothing to do with what I wrote. And if you are a C&R, you have to log your guns purchased with it in and out of a gun book.
Many states you can sell to residents of adjoining states, but that’s not what this is. Log the sales, find out who’s running guns up the seaboard, and prosecute them.
Yeah, I feel you’re not responding to me as much as just running through your favorite hypotheticals.
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The problem is I don’t think the law is well defined. Does it require turning a profit? Is it volume? Is it primary source of income? IIRC there isn’t a hard definition for the ATF to follow. Though, like I said, I know people who have been flagged for their purchase volume, to it appears they are keeping SOME tabs on it.
It’s more “Why make laws that won’t work or do nothing.” Making something double bad I don’t believe has ever worked to reduced that thing, just makes penalties harsher, but that has shown to not deter crime (ie death penalty).
I can’t look it up right now, but I am 90% sure hand gun sales are a federal no go, even adjoining states. Long guns I think get a pass on the federal level, states vary. So if it is shops knowingly selling to out of state residents, I believe that is illegal and not sure how that doesn’t get noticed.
I recall a story a few years ago about certain shops where guns in Chicago and DC and some other bad spots have been traced back to them. So clearly there are “bad apple” dealers, but one would think this is something they could monitor and contain. If they can’t do that for licensed stores, what hope do we have for private sellers being enforced?
Not at all. The laws are already there to come down hard on the straw purchasers, but they need to enforce them.
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A person can often buy a gun out of state, but needs to submit to a background check. If it is a prohibited sale, like sometimes with pistols, you can pay the seller, who ships it to a FFL in your state. that FFL runs the background check before you take possession. That is how sales on gunbroker work, and is the same if I am out of state and see a historical gun I want to buy at a shop or gun show.
Then we should define it, not use the previous lack of regulation as a reason why regulation can’t work.
I say volume, the other criteria are meaningless.
Who said double bad? My argument is make the transfers of firearms go through a background check.
You’re right, long guns only.
When a trace is run and you’re the last 4473 on file you have some questions to answer on how that gun got four states away. If you don’t have a police report for the loss of the firearm you’re in trouble. If you’re reporting twenty guns stolen each year you’re going to get a visit. No law stops all bad behavior but you make it harder to do so and increase the risk compared to the benefit of engaging in that activity.
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I don’t really have a problem with DEFINING a hard number or clearing up what constitutes a business. Actually well defined laws helps keep people OUT of trouble. As long as said people who collect and do trades/sales all the time can reasonably afford an FFL and it is granted to them. IIRC the standard FFL license isn’t that much. I don’t know if there is other criteria. I really need to build a depository for when I look something up so I can refer to it again, but as I said IIRC in the 90s they tried to discourage private collectors and hobbyist from having an FFL with out a store. I don’t know if that is a position now or not.
Personally if I traded and sold stuff that often, I would WANT an FFL so I could get stuff delivered to my house. Oh and I mentioned the C&R earlier because some people (not necessarily your guy at the show) do get those as they are quite cheap and popular among collectors. For the benefit of letting others know that is out there, I imagine you already knew about it.
I don’t know if you have any other hobby, but whether it is guns or comic books or Hummel figures, people LOVE finding and flipping stuff. So while I am sure some of these people are more or less “gun runners”, the people I know who do it just love wheeling and dealing.
I don’t do it often, but on occasion I recognize things going for less than what they are worth to the right people and manage to flip them. Best haul was a bunch of Playmobile toys with boxes and a giant lego ship.
You’re falling into his trap. @Mister44 normally uses this argument in firearm discussions here. “The system doesn’t work 100% so let’s not make a system.”
This site has a long history of pointless firearm discussions. @miter44 is the “pro-gun, anti-regulation” side in these discussions normally.
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Had you heard the incredulous tone my voice rose to while typing that my intent would have been clearer
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We’ve seen it before here. 
I do have an actual question for you given your background. My cousin recently found a family heirloom pistol from our grandfather in his things (he died a few years ago). It is a fancy pistol with the family name engraved on the grips. I’m the last one with the family name (being male and of the line). She wants to give it to me but she’s in Washington and I’m in California. I assume that the only way to get the firearm is to ship it to a licensed deal locally (which is actually two counties away, thanks Bay Area!) and for me to do the checks and paperwork there? I can’t go up there and carry it back in checked luggage or the like? No money will change hands.
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I turned in my license 15 years ago, so I’ll only offer the general advice that you can fly with a checked firearm, just declare it to the airline and follow their container requirements. If you’re shipping across state lines (and because it’s a handgun) it needs to go through an FFL.
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Yeah. I figured that I might be legally able to receive it by hand from my cousin, when I never visit the home country, and check it into baggage for my flight home (and declare it). California would still make me register it once I’m here. Otherwise, I’d need to have her ship it to a FFL. I’m in an area where there are no firearm dealers, because of an inter-county accord where they refuse to issue new licenses for gun businesses, so I’d have to go to another city and county to collect it.
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@enso, if you do have it shipped FFLs around here (FL) charge $15-45 for doing the transfer. It’s fair given you’re taking the clerk’s time, NICS check, and they have to maintain the record. Sorry about the drive though. Sounds like a good reason to go see family.
@Mister44 and I have gone round and around on firearm regulation before, it’s why I started this thread:
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IIRC if it was left directly to you, it falls under an exception and you could pick it up and fly home with it.
But because it wasn’t it is considered a gift, and IIRC federally you still have to go through an FFL.
Considering you live in CA, I would go through the FFL just to have all the bases covered. I would call around and find someone who will do it for < $20. Possible sympathy for the heirloom and inheritance.
However, you said heirloom, how old? It isn’t muzzle loading is it? Those aren’t considered firearms.
This guy explains gifting vs inheriting on the federal level.
His goods were left to my aunt, his daughter. Her daughter has been processing things and found the gun in it. Since I’m the only one left with the name engraved into the gun…they want to give it to me but he didn’t do it directly (he was senile at the end).
I have literally three or so options. 
We don’t get gun stores here. The counties block them.
I’m guessing 60s, not having been given the details. It’s a revolver of a large caliber.
Thanks for the link.
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Yeah, not old enough. Its a gift and has to go through the FFL. Any idea on who did the engraving? Some of the more well known engravers end up adding a lot of value (not that you would sell it, but for insurance).
Not a clue and it is literally my last name so…
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Eh post a pic later if you can.
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I like haggis.
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