Or you could take it as reasonable cause to suspect the people using the credits are cheating the system… If you spend all of your money on a single meal, you cannot afford to buy the rest of the meals that you were supposed to buy. I’m not saying that people don’t genuinely need the system, and even that a few bad apples invalidate the gain from having the system in place. If the situation appears that most everyone is cheating the system, then the people who actually need the help are likely to get stepped on. I’m just saying that empathetically, people just above the welfare limit are not going to appreciate the people able to afford such luxuries on the welfare system. Fixing that kind of disparity might actually improve people’s overall opinion of welfare and let it do what it is meant for.
I’ve considered both. I am not implying anything, I used quotes around organic because it isn’t fully clear whether it is actually healthier. I think it probably is, but the science is not clear. Healthier for the planet almost certainly, for individuals most likely. But my opinion is different from scientific rigour.
My point was that if we accept the idea that organic is more healthy as a given, then seeing Walmart, the largest purchaser of food in the US, embrace the sale of organic food it can only be seen as a good thing. Unless the reason people like organic is because of the status it provides rather than any health outcomes - in which case those class assumptions and projections are broken down by sales at Walmart. And I could give 2 craps about preserving people’s status symbols.
Your second point seems obvious. Organic farming is probably less environmentally destructive. It is probably worth it to pay extra for that. But if one does not have to pay extra for a less destructive choice, why is that a bad thing? Is it because paying extra for environmentally ‘better’ things is a status thing?
Personally, I’d love it if electric cars were the cheapest and best on the road, where only rich morons bought and drove gas machines. And I’d love it if organic becomes the norm (though perhaps the demand for organic fertilizer could create a problem indirectly). But it will mean that organic/local as wealth indicating status symbols will have to go.
I’m the Daily Mail’s nightmare.
I’m on disability benefits and I shop in Waitrose with all the middle class people.
I mostly shop there because they have more food that I am not allergic to, but the increase in quality is nice too. The increase in price, not so much but it’s worth it to support a workers co-operative.
seasonally, you can get a lobster roll at McDonald’s in Maine…
Obligatory smbc (today’s!):
Edit: Apparently, I should have read further before posting.
Eh - you’re making it real hard for me to have much sympathy because they carried the wrong kind of shoelace.
Speaking of which (You might want some mental bleach before digging in)…
… Perhaps this is cause for the libertarian style compromise where the government distributes money to everyone, not just the needy.
Prediction: Walmart will be behind efforts to “relax” the rules for what constitutes organic in food. Which, despite those above using it as if we are studying chemistry, means specific things legally when used to describe food.
Same as oysters in London.
So Wal Mart is taking the same approach it takes with manufactured items; buying huge volumes from factories but reducing prices and squeezing profit margins for producers. Given that much organic food comes from small holders (and is thus fair trade as well), this move from Wal Mart has the potential to undermine better prices for such producers. I suspect this will lead to the same situation we now see in manufacturing; only the really big players can meet Wal Mart volumes (and produce enough low margin items to extract some profit. Expect to see agri-business organics to grab the lion’s share of this.
My understanding was that the horse left the barn some time ago.
That is likely to happen - much organic food now is produced in large ‘agri-business’ farms.
Again, what were we hoping for in buying organic? Back when organic produce was crappier and more expensive, we used to buy it to support a growing market of producers. Farmers are not blessed virgins deserving of special protection at the expense of say, poor people. I was explicitly hoping the market for organic food would expand to include large scale producers - because that means less pesticides and other crap being dumped into our rivers etc. If there is a downside to a massive expansion of organic agriculture, I am not seeing it.
There will always be a place for local, organic farm to table sorts of operations on a small scale. At least as long as people are willing to pay for it. The rest of us (who have to balance income against housing costs, childcare and all the rest of life while trying to make the best choices possible) might find ourselves choosing not to support a high priced, inefficient organic farmer because ‘special’ and just buying the best quality produce we can afford while still keeping clothing on the children.
I don’t shop at Walmart, in part because there isn’t one nearby and mostly because I prefer Costco for that sort of shopping. But I am not going to get my knickers in a twist if that massive behemoth starts doing the occasional thing that might have some inadvertent positive impacts on the world. And certainly not just because it means organic produce is now available to those common rabble who shop at Walmart (the implicit complaint of many people who have expressed horror combined with dismissiveness of people who shop there).
I was actually thinking of small holders in places like Asia and Africa; the sorts of producers with whom I am in contact and work with. So I don’t make a distinction between farmers and poor people. I have no problems with larger farms per se, and agree that it’s a good thing if they end up producing things with less pesticides and so on.
I don’t shop at Wal Mart because I live in Hong Kong and they have tried and failed in this market. But I have worked with the company on improving the environmental and labour practices in Chinese factories, and have seen the positive influence that a company like this can have on practices.
We’ll have to wait and see what happens.
Yep. Whenever we’re driving long distances, its pretty much a given if we pass through a dead, depressed looking small town center with half it’s buildings boarded, we either already saw, or will see on the other side, the Walmart. If the little town is thriving – people walking around, functioning small businesses, a sense of life – we check the gps and there’s always no walmart for 50 miles or more.
The places are like sugar-laced poison to small towns, but so many can’t resist the quick fix of low prices and lots of minimum wage jobs.
Do you really know people who do that? I buy lots of organic food, and know a lot of others who do so too. But attaining some sort of status by doing so never seems to enter any of our heads. It’s all about health and promoting better growing, selling, and labor practices.
While I appreciate the sentiment, organic bananas at my nearest Whole Foods cost 10 cents more a pound than the conventional bananas at my local Stop and Shop. The premium for organic isn’t always large, and I’m guessing those are the cases where Wal-Mart sees an opportunity to move into organic food.
I’ve had water that was mostly but not entirely inorganic. Human gasto-intestinal systems don’t particularly like that sort of thing, but I’ve had it.
You mean $0.69/pound, right? And $0.99/pound for organic. Trader Joe’s price is per banana, and comes out even cheaper for either option.
Either of those stores is cheaper than any of the stores close to my neighborhood. Definitely cheaper than any I can walk to.
Driving to Walmart would cost me more in gas than I’d save on groceries. Even if I didn’t abhor every aspect of their business model, it would still be stupid for me to go there.
One size does not fit all.
I can’t speak for wysinwyg, but one thing I have noticed in general is that when a big box store takes on a line of food I like, over time the quality goes down significantly because it’s hard to upscale one’s business to accommodate the higher volume while maintaining quality. And WalMart isn’t exactly known for ethical practices. For example, I wouldn’t put it past the Waltons to lobby/pay for new regulations watering down the definition of organic. Between these two issues, my concern about them carrying “organic” food is that it might be OK at first, but over time people won’t really be getting what they’re paying for.
Exactly, thanks for putting it so well. That’s my main concern too.
