Why (or why not) to vote for Bernie Sanders

Fun game. We’re listening.

Also, what’s the best organized grassroots org for immigration reform?


Switching gears…

###Cruz, Huckabee, others gain from unprecedented political buying power of wealthy donors.

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When you wrote that Sen. Sanders is …

which two or three organizations are the strongest examples of the organizations you referenced?

Speaking of well organized capitalist/socialist hybrids …


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[quote=“funruly, post:254, topic:59394”]
Fun game. We’re listening … Also, what’s the best organized grassroots org for immigration reform?[/quote]

Single payer: (without a doubt)


Their excellent FAQ: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

Immigration reform: Can’t really name just a main one, they’re splintered:



As far as how it relates to Bernie Sanders, there’s a lot of nuance. Of course, that means the corporate media is confused and/or purposefully obtuse on Sanders in this regard. However, this article from Vox is surprisingly good:

In my opinion, Sanders is going to need to evolve on his current immigration stances or at least explain his positions much better. His recent statements makes him appear to not understand how immigration can create jobs. That’s not good.

Also, in the past he’s shown positive steps towards support for more open borders, but in the past week he’s used confusing language in that regard. Sanders is going to have to get it straight quick.


Thanks, Cow. Happy to see NALEO and FIRM on your list.

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Isn’t more jobs for their own sake kind of a ruse? If jobs = problem solving, I’d think that more jobs = more unsolved problems. Not to mention that much of the current employment market seems to be arguably work which was never needed.


Might just edit one of Cowicide’s Bernie posts and post it to BB tbh


I think he and other Sanders supporters would appreciate that. Plus, @Cowicide is a rather eloquent spokesman for the campaign…


You may be right. According to Zaid Jilani of Alternet, some of Vox can be full of crap on occasion. I’ve witnessed Vox screw the pooch before, so I tend to agree with Zaid on that point.

Here’s Zaid’s POV:

How the Latest Smear Campaign Against Bernie Sanders Collapsed Before It Started

The Vermont senator’s words were completely twisted. Here’s what he actually said.


I agree with Zaid for the most part, however I still think Sanders needs to get some national airtime soon to better explain himself on immigration. Even to an ardent supporter like me, he appeared too harsh during the last few interviews. We really don’t want the media to frame him as anti-immigration (which is ridiculous if one looks at his overall record), but they’ll do it anyway if he lets them. In my opinion, if not his recent stances, Sanders at least needs to evolve his language on immigration much better than he appears to be doing lately. Then again, this may be one of the few areas where I disagree with Sanders and/or I don’t have enough facts yet on the issue.


That’s very nice of you, @Mindysan33, thank you.


it’s true. You’re a true advocate and you’d be best suited for having a pitch here on BB. I appreciate all you’re doing.


Ohh. A new imprint!


So, @Cowicide

Who did you want, if it wasn’t Sanders?

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I realize I’m coming into this conversation late, but this seems to be pretty far from accurate.

Each candidate/party puts forward their own list of electors. These are people who, whether or not they are legally pledged to vote for the candidate in question (which they are in most states), are hand-chosen representatives loyal to the party or candidate.

When you vote, you are voting for these electors. It doesn’t make any sense to say that “very few members of the College are independent,” as if it’s some static body — it’s voted in every four years.

So, for example, if Sanders ran as an independent, and won a plurality of the vote in California, the entire delegation to the electoral college from California would be required to be those 55 people hand-picked by the Sanders campaign, and they would be bound by state law in California to vote for Sanders.

The electoral college system is definitely unfair to independents, because of the winner-take-all system, but it’s just wrong to say that the electoral college wouldn’t cast their votes for the independent, if that’s how their states had voted.

(There have been a few cases of “faithless electors” casting a vote for someone other than to whom they were pledged, but they’ve all been accidents or symbolic protests when the outcome wasn’t going to change.)

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Warren. Or, rather, a Warren/Sanders run, perhaps. Otherwise, I want a deity to come and collect souls from the likes of the Koch brothers, etc..

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Both of our views are accurate, in that they describe the workings of the electoral college.

You’ve nicely fleshed out the gaps in what I was saying.

Dammit, I can no longer support Sanders. He’s in somebody’s pocket.


He vocally supported President Obama’s immigration executive order and has called for going even further, such as including the parents of dreamers, putting him to the left of President Obama.

Wait, what?