Why public transportation sucks in the US

I live in France. I would like to add some comments on the article and video, in no particular order.

1: decline of public transport after WW2. This was also the case in Europe, except the east block (it declined after the fall of the USSR) and Switzerland (where public transport apparently still allows to go anywhere today). In rural France, little train lines used to deserve the countryside and were replaced by busses in the 50s-60s. Then the busses went less frequent, and mostly disappeared. I know about the train lines: one used to drive in my backyard and my grand-parents talked about it when I was young.
In the massif central (the mountains in the centre of France), one can still see train bridges and tunnels which were constructed in the 19th century. Lots of them, slowly going derelict.
Basically, the trains lines were cut for the same reasons as they were cut in the USA: less and less people used them and infrastructure costs were high. One important reason behind less usage was also that less and less people lived in the countryside, I did not see that in the video.

2: zoning laws. Zoning laws are probably not as different between Europe and the USA as the video would make you believe. The video compares the old, historical centre of European cities with the US suburbs but in European suburbs zoning laws are closer to what would find in the USA… and public transport is just as bad.

3: one drive against public transport that I did not see in the video was opposition to communism. Remember: we are talking about the time after WW2 and that was the cold war. Train driver unions were very much linked to the communist party, for historical reasons (communist revolutionaries were very much into trains, one of the reasons why Hitler built the first Autobahns) and recognised that mobilising between 500 and 1000 trains drivers was all it took to bring a government to its knees. France’s communist party very much used that power in the 60s-70s.

4: another difference which is absent from the video is that the USA was the largest oil producer after WW2. Europe did not have the luxury of cheap oil, especially after 1973 (foundation year of OPEC) and passed laws that made large cars and fuel more expensive.

5: street trains (tramways). Tramways enjoy a big revival in Europe. They are much cheaper to build than underground trains and, provided the traffic lights are arranged in their favour, about as fast as them. Interestingly, tramways were standard in East Berlin (the west had undergrounds) for the same reasons: cheaper and why save street space for the cars when the population cannot afford a car anyway?

6: last but not least, public transport is not always that different between Europe and the USA. Europe has two things which the USA does not have:

  • dense underground systems in large cities
  • high speed passenger trains.

Most of the time, the dense underground systems are there for historical reasons as they were built in the 19th century or the beginning of the 20th century, at a time when the USA did not have cities large enough to justify their cost. Also: the historical centre of many European city is so densely populated that such underground systems are a necessity and can pay themselves.
High-speed passenger trains were developed originally to compete against air transportation. Here the conditions are quite different between the USA and Europe, simply because the USA is a much larger country. High-speed trains make sense when distances are about 500 km, airplanes make sense over 1000 km.

OTOH, commuter trains are not that different between the USA and Europe (when they exist, of course). I have taken commuter trains in Chicago and New York and could have thought myself in Paris or Berlin: they were about as slow, noisy and inconvenient.

Also: the article does not make a difference between public transport and mass transport, but the difference is essential. Underground only makes sense as a mass transport system, because of the prohibitively expensive infrastructure maintenance costs. Mass transport in large, densely populated cities makes sense to mitigate pollution as cities like Bangkok or Lagos show. Public transport is often something different, as the example of Switzerland shows. There, public transport is designed as an alternative to cars and goes to every small village with a combination of trains, postal busses and even on-demand busses in some cases.

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Quite correct.

The first time I saw that map, it struck me how closely it matches this one:

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In earlier threads on the subject of mass transit, I’ve posted several links to articles describing how it takes 2x-5x as much money to build a mile of transit here in the USA as it does in other places around the world. That’s got to be a major factor too.

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But not the right kind of “white and wealthy.” They’re educated liberals, not Real Americans™.

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Now compare the Clinton Archipelago to this:

This map displays every county in the U.S. Each county is sized proportional to its share of the total U.S. GDP.

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That relative prosperity correlates with votes for the status quo surprises me not at all. Banking, insurance, and the tech sector have done extraordinarily well since the 2008 crash.

Re: your first comment, have you seen Rana Dasgupta’s Granta piece, “Notes on a Suicide”? It’s ostensibly about the 2016 live-streamed suicide of a young woman in Égly, but it begins with the closing of the train lines, and the social consequences that are still unfolding from that.

It also correlated to population concentrations. All those wide open red spaces on the election map are very sparsely occupied. This is the reason they have way more Electoral College votes per voter. People=economic activity=incentive to go there. It’s a lot easier to staff a startup with quality people in NY or SF than in some bucolic exurb. Young people love Brooklyn and similar places because they can take public transport or walk to anywhere they need to go. The idea of having to drive to get eggs and milk is an anathema.

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No, I had not seen that piece. I checked and indeed the piece is based on a true story, but I would not think the train system is the main motivation. In any case, there are between 176000 and 200000 suicide attempts each year in France, of which about 10500 result in death. It is about 3 times the number of death in car accidents and is the first cause of death between 25 and 34 years, the second between 15 and 24 years. Océane, the girl from Égly, was 19 when she took her life.

Nifty animation, do you have a source for me?

The Shape of the US Economy - Metrocosm I think it was posted here a while back, I loved it too so I bookmarked it. Truly a picture worth 1000 words.

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Not sure what voting patterns have to do with public transportation and where people live, but okay. Also, since we peg the building of public transport to local and state taxes, more than federal, you get better public transit in places with deeper pockets.

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I’m not sure it matters, regarding the gentrification of cities.

Even if the urban elite vote blue, does it matter if the end effect is still them living in cities and driving up cost of living where the working classes can’t live near decent jobs?

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Has to do with density relating to economic development, and that though these dense areas generate the bulk of taxes, the gov’t send their money to “rugged individualists” in red states and areas so they can live a lifestyle of very high cost infrastructure with low population density on public roads, rather than supporting public transit in blue areas where the most people are. Supporting transit is a “giveaway to the takers” while building 100 miles of public paved road to a couple of ranches is “America”.

Gentrification is a zoning problem more than anything else. The urban elites won’t allow the density to naturally adapt to the housing economy. Most of my gentrifying city is zoned for 2 family 35’ high. Builders would LOVE to build classic low rise 6 floor apartment buildings like those already scatterd in those zones, but can’t.

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I was making a joke about how conservatives and Libertarians who oppose tax-funded public transit look at the urbanites who use it, but to answer your question my observation has been that most affluent urban liberals do understand the value of having room in their cities for the people who make the city work and thus make their privileged lives so pleasant.

The basic problem remains a lack of affordable rental housing stock, and even if you removed San Francisco style NIMBYism from the scenario the housing market would still be dictated by greedhead real estate developers along with basic supply and demand and available land constraints. Fortunately, sometimes all that blue voting on the municipal level leads to progressive zoning and permitting and rent control policies.

Is the situation with jobs entirely their fault? Who is making the choices about where jobs are being located? And once an area is bereft of jobs with decent wages, what sorts of choices do you think people have regarding employment? I think that people like to think in terms of urban vs. rural, but I think it’s a more complicated picture, and the people we’re discussing have far less choices. I’d say that vast majority of people in rural areas are not rich ranchers, but are people with little options for employment. I do agree that people in more rural areas often object to public transit projects that connect far flung areas with urban cores (among other things).

There is no “natural” in the economy though. The economy is a social structure that we can legislate and structure in ways that is most beneficial to all people.

Well, that’s why we have city councils and mayors that we elect, isn’t it? I can say that here, affordable housing is very much on the public imagination and the current crop of mayoral candidates will need to speak to that to get elected.

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This. Those who currently own homes or condos in high-cost urban areas have a strong motivation to keep supply low, so that resale value stays high.

When you take what sounds like a noble civic virtue “Let’s keep this a low density, human-scale neighborhood”, and reinforce it with a private profit motive “Hey, I could sell this at age 50 and retire on the proceeds”, the resulting combination is damn near impossible to overcome.

Except that the “urban elites” in places like Brooklyn and north side Chicago and San Francisco are pretty much every single person who owns a home and wants its value to increase, or at least not drop due to increased supply. We’re not talking about “Henry Potter versus everyone else in Bedford Falls” here.

Wow, there’s so much to unpack in there I can barely begin. By a “natural economy” I meant letting supply and demand dictate what gets constructed and where. We’ve heard a lot about Houston being very close to this “ideal”, but the markets there respond with sprawl rather than density because there are no public transit clusters to anchor a walkable neighborhood.

The other extreme is SF & NYC where rent controls and extreme zoning cripple any serious response to market pressures. A developer here wanted to create a 20 story tower of “micro-units” close to transit, sub 300 sf apartments ideal for young single people, but it was shot down by the NIMBY’s worried about their street parking. Is that an example of “legislate and structure in ways that is most beneficial to all people.”?

When Jane Jacobs wrote Death and Life of Great American Cities in the late 50’s not enough time had passed under rent controls for her to see the distortions. She wrote about how all housing stock went through a life cycle of being new for the rich and then as it aged being passed down to the poor. Rent control and zoning killed this pattern, and then the return of the wealthy to the cities underlined the problem that not enough had been built in the intervening years to “hand down” to the less affluent.

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Thank you for that comment.

Wait, what ideal is Houston’s dreadful real estate supposedly the ideal of? Housing costs are sort of low, but in the absence of government zoning you wind up with developers owning basically 100% of the land which they then turn into little city centers dotted around the town and bump the price from affordable to nowhere near it. While buying land around Houston is not too expensive, building and maintaining it is and rent is above average.

The only difference between Houston and SF or NY is the fact that Houston can expand without running into anything.

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