I should also note that the bankruptcy laws were “reformed” to make it harder for individuals to declare bankruptcy (during Bush II?).
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Had a similar experience here in Canada, about 20yrs ago I was chopping some veggies and gave myself a pretty deep slice in my finger…
Hospital was a block away, so wandered over to the ER to get it checked, as it was bleeding pretty heavily and wasn’t sure if stitches might be needed.
Went in, filled out some paperwork, was given some gauze, and sat there for an hour. Bleeding stopped, didn’t appear anyone was going to see me any time soon, so I decided to just go home. (Healed up fine.)
A few weeks later I got an invoice for about $120. (Due to a technicality I wasn’t on a Health Canada plan at the time.) Wonder how much that’d be now…and wonder how much these places are just ripping off all levels of the services.
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I could only dream of a bill that low from an ER in the US, even 20 years ago.
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Would the technicality be that health care plans are delivered by the provinces and territories, not Health Canada?
“All provinces and territories will provide free emergency medical services, even if you don’t have a government health card.”
Are you a resident of Canada?
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I don’t think people realize how expensive the ER is. Some people probably think it’s free since the hospital ER is legally required to see all patients. I knew a lady whose son had a sore throat but she didn’t want to take him to a family practice provider because there was a $50 visit charge. She took her soon to the ER where she wasn’t required to pay anything up front. After a strep test and a short visit she received a bill for hundreds…and probably some subsequent calls and letters from the collection agency. There’s a serious need for universal healthcare. Until then, I avoid the ER unless I truly feel that it’s an emergency. Even a walk-in med clinic is a better option.
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I was trying to simplify this barely-relevant point for non-Canadians, but for the record it was with my BC Care Card at the time, which is now called MSP.
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I’m glad her story didn’t end up like Stiv Bators.
From wiki:
In mid-1990, Bators died in Paris after being hit by a car. He was taken to a hospital but reportedly left before seeing a doctor after waiting several hours and assuming he was not injured. Reports indicate that he died in his sleep as the result of a traumatic brain injury
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You’re plainly looking at this from the wrong perspective. This is a highly efficient way to enrich healthcare companies. Now they just need to figure out how to scale it!
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THIS.
I had a little trip to a local ER back in feburary after spending most of the night in pain levels 6-8. Turns out it was a kidney stone, confirmed by a CT scan. They also gave me some IV pain killers, and notes for some additional meds. I was there for ~3 hours, and the total bill for everything was nearly ten grand, which my insurance (grudgingly) covered.
If I didn’t have that insurance? I honestly don’t know. Probably would have suffered more for it.
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I got a kidney stone in late February, 2020.
I ended up needing to have it surgically removed. Two ER visits, and I ended up spending a week in the hospital.
The first ER visit was normal. It was just to get a CT scan, confirm it was “just” a kidney stone, and get meds to help it pass and to take the edge off the pain a bit. My insurance company was billed a bit over $10K, I think they paid like $5k, I paid $100 co-pay and the hospital wrote off the rest due to contracts.
The second ER visit? Not so normal. I ended up getting admitted, and they eventually had to go in after it. They billed my insurance company well over $100K, I paid my $100 co-pay for the ER visit, the $400 deductable, and $200 more in co-insurance to my Out Of Pocket Max. My insurance company ended up paying about $60k.
I am very, very glad that I have what in the USA is exceptional, exceptional healthcare insurance. (In other countries, it’s normal to poor insurance.)
But I know if I didn’t have that insurance, I would have been exceptionally screwed. The hospital would have wanted the full $150k or whatever it ended up being. It would have ruined me, financially.
If I would have had the HDHP insurance that my company wanted me to take, it would have cost me $20K or so. Again, even with that insurance, it would have really messed me up. I would have saved about $1500 over the year in premiums, but I would have lost $20K that year.
That plan costs about $5-7K per person. I figure that is what Universal health care would cost, about $7K per person. All this suffering, all this want, all this crap. All the people who die without care, all the people who delay medical care due to expense until it gets bad enough that they are willing to go bankrupt (and a cent of prevention is worth a buck in cure). All for $7k a person or so. And most of us are, between our employers and ourselves, paying nearly that much anyway.
We need universal health care stat.
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I’m interested in the next step. The executives of the hospital need to be brought up on charges. Getting slapped in court for individual incidents isn’t going to undercut their bottom line enough to encourage a change of behavior.
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There are plenty of people who this is their ONLY option. Because they HAVE to take you and at least stabilize you. Millions of Americans have no other options.
Not if you don’t have any way to pay for it it’s not.
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dude we basically have school buses full of DEAD kids from school shootings. I have no idea what it takes to change anything around here 
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yeah, they moved to make it at least 8 years between filings, changed what counted as income for determining eligibility, and excluded certain debts all together. plus the court can throw out your filing if they determine you’re “abusing” the system.
basically i think you wind up needing a very good lawyer if you’re trying to do it more than once in your lifetime, and maybe even for that one time too
and everyone knows people who are suffering from medical or college debt ( the former which is hard to get discharged, and the latter legally impossible ) often have lawyers on hand /s
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Adding to the litany of hospital billing mishaps: my wife , out of town in Charlotte NC, needed a simple shot of her meds administered. After a few hours they decided they couldn’t do it.
So, for doing nothing. They billed BCBS and billed me for the $50 copay. Arguments went nowhere but I refused to pay.
Damaged my credit rating for 10 years-
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How about $5700 average per capita for wealthy countries, or roughly half the US cost?
How much of that is administrative costs?
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There is no breaking point. The actual citizens of the country overwhelming would prefer a better system, but as long as rich healthcare companies can continue to bribe politicians to keep the system as it is, nothing will change.
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The people who decide these sorts of things don’t care because why would they? What are you going to do? Vote for someone else? Ha ha, good one.
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When I had my mother of all heart attacks in 2012 I was on a job with my wife. Normally you hit my hand with a hammer or slice a finger off and I would never go to an emergency room. I have a very high tolerance for pain.
But on this day the pain was nothing I had ever felt before but I still didn’t think it was a heart attack. My wife kept asking what was wrong and I finally said take me to a hospital. She said she would call 911 but I said no because if it was not a heart attack I knew the ambulance ride would be a couple thousand alone and if they decided it was not an emergency my crappy insurance wouldn’t pay the ER charges. So off we went in the car.
About 2 miles in I knew this was the big one but my wife drove like a woman on a mission blowing all the red lights and got me there alive.
That hesitation to not call an ambulance almost cost me my life, by the time we got there I walked in the door and as soon as they took me in, full cardiac arrest.
But that’s not the fun part, it was like a scene out of a medical drama, cutting off clothes with 15 people racing me down the hall to the cath lab. At one point while I was on the table, I kid you not, the doctor asked if I had insurance, specifically prescription coverage. I said I have no idea, why? His choice in stents were between one that required an expensive prescription for at least a year (turns out for life) or one that did not require expensive prescription. The expensive choice was the better stent.
A nurse said it’s okay that drug just went generic, it’s only 35 bucks a month. I said I’ll take that one.
Imagine my surprise when I filled the first month prescription and it was not generic and would not be for at least a year. 350 bucks a month and my insurance didn’t cover the drug.
We managed until it went generic but wtf? Why should the patient be deciding with no time to discuss the options thoroughly. I get it was an emergency situation but again, wtf?
On a side note I made it on the news because from the time I walked in the door to recovery was less then 30 minutes. So I am grateful for that but it took me 9 years and I only have 600 bucks left to pay off. My share of the bill was 15 grand. That was with insurance. My stroke 4 years later with the ACA was a much different much more affordable 6 day stay.
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Pretty sure that breaking point would involve guillotines or some such.
That would never happen; not just because it would be bad publicity, but think of the profits to be made from the various insurance companies involved, the inevitable lawsuits, etc, etc.
Ah, see, that’s the error outside the U.S. [and most of us inside] make…
That error is mistaking the U.S. for a First World, developed country.
Sure, it appears to be one, and it is one… in certain respects… in some circumstances… in some areas.
But, compared to First World developed countries, it falls short & is getting worse.
Corruption is rampant, made obvious by the Previous Resident of the WH, and by the inability of the Democrats to pass bills because certain legislators have been bought & paid for…
The list is long, but keep in mind that the U.S. has been an Oligarchy [with a veneer of Democracy] for a long time.
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