#1 By: Cory Doctorow, December 20th, 2013 11:15
#2 By: hungryjoe, December 20th, 2013 11:31
Are we still saying this is about combatting terrorism? Or can we finally give up that pretense?
#3 By: Andrew Faehnle, December 20th, 2013 11:41
Shut it all down.
Fuck, blow it all up.
#4 By: Ibrahim, December 20th, 2013 12:02
EU chief, Israeli defense minister
Fine by me. Their misdeeds not withstanding, they're still a fucking spy agency.
#5 By: Inquiry, December 20th, 2013 12:06
Americans seem to be waiting for someone else to swoop in and save them from themselves ... like the way China saved the Tibetans from their slavery problem.
#6 By: nonfer, December 20th, 2013 12:07
come closer, i want to tell you something about how i feel being compared to the self immolating.
#7 By: IMB, December 20th, 2013 12:14
Well the "without borders" part is simply terrifying. You need to keep things boxed up and controlled, keeping other things out. What were they thinking? /s
#8 By: Fascinoma, December 20th, 2013 12:18
#9 By: GideonTJones, December 20th, 2013 12:27
Nobody is arguing they only spy because of terrorism, that's a fairly ridiculous straw man.
#10 By: Dennis Hopper, December 20th, 2013 12:33
Pretty much everyone. Not just the EC targets.
#11 By: GideonTJones, December 20th, 2013 12:36
Seriously. We know for a fact that members of the EU spy on both the US and each other. We know Israel spies on the US. And we know for a fact that all sorts of countries use NGO and diplomatic staff to spy on each other.
Remember the Manning leaks? Diplomats spying on their counterparts? Remember? Are people really confused about why diplomats and NGOs might be targeted? They're one of the easiest ways to get spies into another country. Diplomats and NGO staff get caught spying and booted from the countries they're working in all the time.
#12 By: wysinwyg, December 20th, 2013 12:37
I'm pretty sure the government's justification for overreach by the NSA right along has been "terrorism". Happy to consider evidence otherwise.
#13 By: IMB, December 20th, 2013 12:38
#14 By: Acer Platanoides , December 20th, 2013 12:41
Almost like they are the security forces for deeply entrenched political interests, rather than the bulk of the population.
I know, crazy talk.
#15 By: Jim Saul, December 20th, 2013 12:49
(nudge nudge... World Health Organization)
#16 By: GideonTJones, December 20th, 2013 12:50
The NSA existed for several decades before "The War on Terror", and this is the sort of stuff they've always done. It's clearly not terrorism related and I don't know anyone who's saying it is.
They've claimed they're trying to prevent terrorism as a justification for the mass domestic surveillance programs. Not stuff like this.
#17 By: Acer Platanoides , December 20th, 2013 12:55
Correct. This is just about predicting and therefore controlling, change.
of any sort.
#18 By: Morgan Hanam, December 20th, 2013 12:56
These targets make sense to me now. Not that I agree with them as targets. Seems to be the 'globalization' (catchword for planetary domination or whatever) forces vs. the integrative "we" forces, which the U.N. in particular represents . A difference of perception, a war of perception. Those who perceive no alternative other than that of persuading or coercing others (Hobbes kind of view) vs. those that perceive a larger, more inclusive reality. Those who must achieve personal societal status at any cost versus those who are moving inward politically.
#19 By: James Race, December 20th, 2013 13:03
#20 By: hungryjoe, December 20th, 2013 13:14
The only justification they trot out for spying is terrorism. Here, here's a quote from Obama re: the NSA: "If we’re gonna do a good job preventing a terrorist attack in this country, a weapon of mass destruction gettin’ on the New York subway system, et cetera, we do want to keep eyes on some bad actors."
I pulled that from this article: http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/nsa-leaks-raised-legitimate-concerns
The article is dated 12/5/13.
Also, your mom is a straw man.
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