You mean poor planners who are rich and have more than $5 million to pass along. And while taxes can be minimized with good planning, it would be unusual to be able to avoid them altogether (hence why what SD is doing is a notable problem)[quote=“vonbobo, post:61, topic:17881”]
Progressive? That’s what you call believing in a system that began in the 1700’s and is failing to stop people from easily and legally avoiding it in the first place?
[/quote]
I actually only said that BB readers are progressive, but I do think it’s possible to have functionally progressive income taxes as well. Other countries seem to do a much better job of it than the US, and removing loopholes and changing capital gains rates would go a fair way to making the tax system more progressive.
Also, the current system of income taxation only began with the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913.
I’ve only seen one study that tried to estimate estate tax avoidance. The authors concluded it was small. Only a few percent of assets are in trusts, for example, and most trusts do have to pay it.
There is also an empirical test: a coalition of ultra rich families have been spending millions each year for decades trying to get rid of it. They seem to expect to pay unless they can change the law.
The estate tax is part of the general tax treatment of inheritance which includes a major tax advantage: the cost basis reset. The cost against which capital gains are measured resets during inheritance without the taxes on current gains being due. very nice not to have to try to sort out the costs of everything after death. Never hear about that from the “death tax” believers.
IMO the real scandal about schemes to avoid the estate tax may well be financial firms and lawyers getting nice fees for setting up and administering them for people who are quite far from paying any such taxes.
How is her/her families debt/lack o capital the problem of the government? People who can’t pay taxes due to poor planning or living beyond their means have to sell property quite regularly to pay debts including taxes.
You DO have the option of purchasing the property yourself, via the loan offered against the -actual- amount of your inheritance, the amount of the estate after taxes. Nothing about that estate is actually yours until then.
Or you could follow the professional advice you got and sell the property, coming out ahead with no loan & no property, that wasn’t yours, to burden you with continued upkeep & property taxes.
Hear that, the pleasant sound of a nearby brook passing under a willow? That’s me, crying you a river for your sad stories & the way you unreliably pluck at the heartstrings of suckers with anecdotal evidence wherein you receive something for nothing, but feel hard done by.
A friend of yours? You mean the one that you allowed to become homeless when property that wasn’t his changed hands? I’ve never had a friend that I watched become homeless in a situation that is clearly remedied with just a friend and a certain section of the classified ads in a newspaper or on the internet. If he was paying rent in one place, he can pay it in another.
Especially with the help of a friend. Next time you see him, tell him how much his story helped you fail to make a point, maybe drop a few thousand yen in his cup, then keep pretending he has a friend.
You can wave around examples that don’t have any actual merit especially if you lace them up in flimsy anecdote & in rich, loving language of a caring victim/hero that you clearly are, but the truth is your stories are full of bull & your saccharine manner is disgusting.
Poor planners with over 5 million dollars to burn on death. Seriously dude, 5 million fucking dollars. Let me shed all the tears because someone had to pay taxes on free money that was over 5 million dollars. Lets be clear, it isn’t taxes on 5 million; it is only the money after 5 million dollars. So, if you manage to die with 6 million dollars worth assets, your poor poor relatives will be taxed on the only a million of it. It is okay, because I bet they can afford a kleenex.
Just because the estate tax doesn’t eliminate royalty doesn’t mean it isn’t progressive. You can have a progressive tax that doesn’t solve all of the worlds inequality and ills. Again, it is a tax on free money you did absolutely nothing to earn… after 5 million fucking dollars. Boo-hoo.
To echo another commentator: if your friend was paying rent at one place, why couldn’t he pay rent at another? Why was his only alternative homelessness? (Especially since it’s increasingly possible to rent without paying key money.)
And wouldn’t he be in the same position if the landlord had decided to sell the property for any reason? Does this mean that the ability to sell property is also some sort of terrible thing?
Thank you for your kind response. However, I do not recall addressing you at all, let alone accusing you of anything. I did suggest that some wealthy people existed. Did you take that as an accusation? Why do you feel so guilty?
Your anecdotes about Japanese death tax are sad, but not terribly relevant. Perhaps they should institute an Estate Tax like we have here in America, with a generous exemption for a family homestead, which would solve one if not both of your friends’ problems.
Since you evidently have no understanding of Japanese tax law, you might wish to refrain from giving advice in that area. Also, you could have simply asked for some clarification regarding my friend instead of jumping to conclusions and using insults. As I told @Ereiamjh above, I’m happy to clarify.
As I understand it, since his is quite elderly and living on a fixed income, and had first rented this place about 50 years ago, his rent was very low for the space and he simply could not afford another place.
Besides the budget issue, the only explanation I know is that he is a very private individual and he has his pride. It is also likely that his landlord did not give him any kind of reasonable notice about the situation before hand since theres a cultural taboo about being the bearer of bad news. He basically showed up at our Rabbi’s house and announced that he was without home and had been for several weeks. The Rabbi called some of us in the community and we’ve worked something out for him.
Its very hard to simply evict someone in Japan in almost all circumstances except this one.
He didn’t call wealthy families obnoxious, he called people [who] whine because they had to pay taxes on a bunch of money they got for free, without having to lift a finger, just because they had rich parents obnoxious.
And he said nothing at all about anyone being “lazy” or “undeserving.”
If you really can’t tell the difference between “people who whine about paying taxes on large amounts of money they were given for free are obnoxious” and “fuck those richers, they’re obnoxious and lazy and undeserving”, then you seriously need to work on improving your reading comprehension.
I don’t mind admitting that I only pay income tax in Japan as a non-resident for several licensing agreements & have never had call to review the estate tax situation.
But the country is not a mystery to me, nor is it hard to fathom its rather clear cut estate tax which has, until 2015, generous deduction allowances.
So generous in fact that it is hard to imagine how anyone living there could be SO cash poor as to leave -only- property valued highly enough to exceed the standard 50,000,000 + 10,000,000 per inheritor when combined with the property deductible valuation & leave it to people who can’t come up with that amount, since such persons qualify for an 80% reduction in the taxable assessment of the property.
I know Japan is on the tongues of right-wing waggers because of the planned reduction of these generous deductions, that’s old news, but you said she passed in 2013 & the changes don’t come into force until 2015. By the scant details you give, it just isn’t feasible that inheriting has somehow become a hardship for you & your wife. Unless your mother-in-law carried substantial debt & these creditors lined up.
EVEN if that’s the case, there is simply no situation possible wherein you pay out more than your inheritance, if there is one at all. So get over it, your story is full of holes, as it stands, you’ve got it better than many States estate/probate arrangements SD notwithstanding, & if your M-I-L property were in the US and assessed high enough to cause a tax debt, why, it’s current value in YEN would be over half a billion, which asks, how was she paying property taxes if all she had left was a house?
Face it.
The only people who consider estate taxes a burden are persons who count their chickens before they are hatched, with no actual clue of what a chicken looks like.
That exemption is on Federal estate taxes; different states have their own rules about it. Also, the limits have changed radically over the years; they used to be much lower, even accounting for inflation. (You can thank the Bush Tax Cuts For Rich People for that change; he didn’t just cut their income tax.) Also, if you own a business when you die, instead of being retired with just a house and financial investments, you can expect to keep an accountant busy for a while untangling the mess of different tax rules.
“Taxes are the price we pay for civilization”? Back when my father in law died, taxes were the price we paid for the VietNam War. These days they’re the price we pay for the Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran/Syria/Pakistan/Palestine/Drug wars. I don’t mind the amount of my income taxes that go to pay for food stamps for hungry people or social security for old people, but I’d sure like to see my taxes going to building up civilization instead of tearing it down.
An estate tax starting at 100K means your mom loses her house when your dad dies, at least if she’s living in a blue state or a big city, and if you still have a farm, it means that the farm gets broken up or sold.
And he said nothing at all about anyone being “lazy” or “undeserving.”
The intent to negatively characterize is clear. I now realize this isn’t a mere discussion but more of a rhetorical partisan issue where only one side can be right. Carry on with yourselves.
I doubt very much that a rental contract became invalid when the building owner changed.
What country was this supposedly in?
Those peoples stories all smell of bullshit.
Deathtaxers.
I wholeheartedly agree, but we don’t get a line-item veto on our 1040. If we did, there would be no more schools. The way we veto wars is we vote; sometimes it also helps to protest.
i take it your parents paid their taxes on that money as they acquired it. i tend to agree that the work they did to support their family should benefit their family. the interesting thing about the concept of south dakota providing not only no state estate tax but loopholes for avoiding federal estate tax is that it doesn’t make sense. providing an exception only available to the ultra rich isn’t fair. you (on behalf of your family) paid 15% because you didn’t get the exception that the article refers to (and maybe your state shouldn’t have an estate tax) so you lived up to the responsibility and paid taxes, again. as long as estates are taxable at all avoiding responsibilities by falsely claiming residence elsewhere sounds criminal (intentionally so).
