doctorow — 2013-10-28T08:47:52-04:00 — #1
trent_baker — 2013-10-28T09:01:31-04:00 — #2
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and the gander is not going to like it one bit.
ffabian — 2013-10-28T09:08:57-04:00 — #3
and now that the US is going around the world, insisting that it is
legitimate and even necessary to spy like this, why should they show
Same with drones (or funding terrorists, installing dictators ...). If there's one constant in US foreign politics it's that the US doesn't seem to learn from it's or others mistakes.
fuzzyfungus — 2013-10-28T09:22:49-04:00 — #4
By shocking coincidence, a newly registered account popped up on Yahoo Answers, inquiring "How do you say 'Because We can, and what are you going to do about it?' in Mexican?"
incarnedine_v — 2013-10-28T09:48:23-04:00 — #5
Summon Ambassador, is that a level 3 or 4 spell? I can never remember.
retepslluerb — 2013-10-28T09:48:56-04:00 — #6
Y'all misunderstand. The NSA's just playing American Poker.
The rules, you ask?
The strongest player is allowed to kibitz. Not to cheat, he obviously would never do that, but just to make sure that the other players don't cheat, play wrong hands or just in case, if they get attacked by snapping turtles on their way home.
euansmith — 2013-10-28T10:12:47-04:00 — #7
... No you don't understand! It's okay when WE do it!
imb — 2013-10-28T10:12:52-04:00 — #8
So there is an outrage intermission, and then the show will go on, right?
joehodgson — 2013-10-28T10:56:19-04:00 — #9
The Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy does have a lot to be overheard - he allegedly (well, it's actually undeniable) recieved 80,000 euros in un-taxed un-declared cash from a party slush-fund, and drives a cripplingly expensive-to-buy-and-maintain Bentley.
If America has any sense they will offer to come clean and publish all the conversations they bugged and see how fast that Bentley moves in reverse gear.
jesuscouto — 2013-10-28T11:03:04-04:00 — #10
As a Spaniard, I can say that while I would very much like to see Mariano Rajoy's and his whole party in jail, I still dont like the USA spying on me because well, they can, what can I do about it?
Not that we lowly Spaniards have much to do to change things, but well, it is not like we are actually required to love it, or the US. Maybe next time you need a useful idiot to help with peacekeeping in the next country you fuck with we will have... well, somebody that doesnt feel like it? Who knows, I dont trust our politicians to do anything but be whores.
tachin1 — 2013-10-28T11:28:08-04:00 — #11
joehodgson — 2013-10-28T11:43:15-04:00 — #12
I am not actually American either, and speaking as a Brit, our young soldiers got roped into giving their lives and limbs in Iraq and Afghanistan too.
I'm just saying that it's a bit hypocritical of prime minister Rajoy to be calling foul when his party is so massively corrupt (as is, sadly, the opposition too)
This is an opportunity for the Spanish government to once again distract attention from Spain's property crash, 25% unemployment, and endemic traffic of influence/corruption. First it was the Olympic bid, then Gibraltar, then Catalan independence, and now this.
Make no mistake - the Spanish government is very happy this happened as it is an opportunity to hide behind self-righteous indignation
jesuscouto — 2013-10-28T11:53:35-04:00 — #13
Oh, of course they are happy. But well, what can I say. This is an important issue of politics, of human rights, and of dignity. The fact that for the bunch of crooks in charge of the rotting cadaver of Spain is just a convenient smokescreen doesnt mean a lot because, for them, everything is a smokescreen to cover for their incompetence & greed.
In a better world we would be one voice asking for a coherent EU position to address this and make the US change his tune. In this one I have a buffoon and a thief making a pretense of caring while robing me blind then selling me wholesale.
jesuscouto — 2013-10-28T12:00:02-04:00 — #14
Also, we got a nice little problem of our own with the recent European Court of Human Rights saying we have been violating some ETA terrorists rights and the reaction of a great deal of the political landscape, including many supporters of the ruling party, being "WTF IS EUROPE DOING THIS IS A CONSPIRACY ANYBODY SAYING WHAT WE DID WRONG IS A TERRORIST STRASBOURG IS ETA!!!!!!!!111!!!11!!"... I've been reading pearls of wisdom like "we cant let Strasbourg tell us who can receive European rights in Spain!".
... and Mr Rajoy the cretin SUPPORTED them when they were basically asking him to ignore the ruling. Supported as in "oh, yes, I support you but I'm not going to do anything".
So yep, is not like with this kind of leaders and politics we can go ask the world for justice.
imb — 2013-10-28T12:11:34-04:00 — #15
Pssh, everything the US does is never a mistake. It is always done because freedom, something, something, democracy and high moral grounds, the pretty flag, and whatnot.
engineer — 2013-10-28T12:32:15-04:00 — #16
Get the feeling that the outrage by American allies is really diplomatic theater to make unhappy citizens satisfied that "something" is being done when behind the scenes all that's really happening is surveillance is being made more difficult to detect?
dacree — 2013-10-28T12:47:06-04:00 — #17
jasonlanejson — 2013-10-28T13:31:16-04:00 — #18
As a Brit that grew up in Spain, Villanova i la Gerltru, south of Barcelona to be exact. I agree. It pains me to see the country that I often feel closer to than my native country in this state.
This is a commonality amongst leaders and governments of the world. It disgusts me to the very pit of my stomach. It reminds me of the Paxman / Brand interview, Brand, he's right you know:
In the meantime we should consider the USA a rouge state, you are in the process of loosing any good faith you once had. This is just the start, it will get worse for you.
jasonlanejson — 2013-10-28T13:40:54-04:00 — #19
Maybe it is, in fact you are right it's deflection, pure and simple. Still does not take away from the fact that it's wrong,wrong, wrong.
steve_nordquist — 2013-10-29T01:25:40-04:00 — #21
Nooooobody exccpects the Spanish Inquisition!
With the getup and seated posture.
Much better than having to explain circuit-bending everyones' (clearly not) conversations for the purpose of either compensating for rotten wiring or gently suggesting that rule of law or compliance could be good things wherever that might make (less ridiculous deadpan) sense just now in Spain.
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