doctorow — 2014-06-21T01:27:45-04:00 — #1
michael_r_smith — 2014-06-21T01:48:23-04:00 — #2
Get money out of politics
rayoccupybend — 2014-06-21T02:34:31-04:00 — #3
Re; "I am not a US citizen and I can't contribute to Mayday."
Are you .... kidding me? This has never stopped anyone ever before in history. Get out of the cheap seats. Save democracy. Send cash to me. I'll know what to do with it.
unekdoud — 2014-06-21T04:12:31-04:00 — #4
get money out of politics
I read that as "get money from politics". Not sure which interpretation is more likely to happen...
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T05:11:26-04:00 — #5
A game that is stacked by an enormous margin in wealth's favor to begin with. This is not a contest that will be won by outspending wealth. It would only validate this system even further.
cowicide — 2014-06-21T07:56:44-04:00 — #6
Ah, there you are. I thought I saw some rocks move and heard some slithering on the ground...
The usual round of naysayers slither out from under their rocks once again to say it's all fruitless to fight and offer oversimplified misrepresentations of Mayday.US without offering any constructive criticism nor any alternative plans of action except to shit on those of us who are actually trying to change this country for the better. Same type naysayers that slithered out and said MayOne wouldn't get funded in the first place and were proven completely and utterly wrong. Your track records and credibility are shit, naysayers.
You guys are like Dick Cheney who now has the nerve to slither out from under his slimy rock to spew on about how wrong everyone else is on Iraq. Cheney does this in hopes that everyone suffers from dementia and can't remember the Bush administration fiasco, nor the fact that Cheney has zero credibility and is a war profiteering war criminal. But, nope, we haven't forgotten.
And, I haven't forgotten your shit track records, naysayers, and how you slithered back under your rocks after we've succeeded in the past without so much as an apology or any acknowledgment of being wrong. Because you lack the dignity.
That's OK, we'll succeed without you, naysayers. Like we always do... without you. Just stay in the meek sidelines where you belong, sneering at those of us who have the courage of our convictions to take action while you sit on your lazy asses.
We'll do what you won't do, despite you.
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T08:03:01-04:00 — #8
I never said it was fruitless to fight, the intentions are correct.
Your choice and vote in this American system is to stop giving money to those who buy political power. Not outspend them in buying in political power. Even if this movement does manage to slip a few candidates past, they wont change the system and will quickly be replaced.
As for the rest of what you said, I have no idea what you are talking about.
cowicide — 2014-06-21T08:15:02-04:00 — #10
I never said it was fruitless to fight,
I wasn't speaking to you directly (but thank you for helpfully calling yourself out). But now that I re-read your drivel I see that you're now trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth.
First you say it won't work and it'll only make things worse and now you say...
the intentions are correct.
Gee, thanks. What's your plan? Lemme guess.. start a libertarian utopia with no government? Or some other idealistic, infantile pipe dreams?
What's your plan? All you've offered thus far is bullshit platitudes and amorphous, generalized criticisms that show your dire lack of knowledge of the Mayday strategy.
Your choice and vote in this American system is to stop giving money to those who buy political power. Not outspend them in buying in political power.
You should really educate yourself on what Mayday and Rootstrikers is about. You're just embarrassing yourself in your haste to be a naysayer.
As far as your little libertarian pipe dream plan goes, we've already gone over this before here (and in the part of the thread leading up to it):
Maybe you should work on your own great plan to change the USA for the better instead of focusing your energy on trying to shit on what others are doing? Or, do you just like to hear yourself complain instead?
peemlives — 2014-06-21T08:25:20-04:00 — #11
Fragment. Consider revising.
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T08:32:26-04:00 — #12
Not a libertarian by any means...
You are not going to outspend monied interest. Even if every person of the 99% gave everything they had, it would still not happen. Especially if they were still spending and investing in those same interest.
The American political system was designed that way from the beginning, nothing has changed that in our history, it has only been made that much more entrenched.
You anger is genuine, just misdirected... I get no joy in relaying this point of view.
cowicide — 2014-06-21T08:37:45-04:00 — #13
You are not going to outspend monied interest.
Once again, this just goes to show that you should really educate yourself on what Mayday and Rootstrikers is about. You're just continuing to embarrass yourself in your haste to be a naysayer.
Please stop embracing willful ignorance. I'm mean, you've only got about 4 posts on this BBS. Why waste the precious few posts you have by putting your own ignorance on display?
I get no joy in relaying this point of view.
You're not relaying some heavy knowledge on me. You're only putting your own willful ignorance on display by showing repeatedly that you have no clue what the strategy and goals are of the very organization you keep deriding.
Educate yourself and then get back with me once you've got a grasp. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time with negative, irrelevant drivel.
Oh, and.. once again... what's your plan? (second time I've asked you this)
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T08:43:48-04:00 — #14
My plan is to starve the beast, not feed it more. You give your power(money) to those institutions then complain about what they do with it.
I am aware of your slacktivism, people new to politics and naivety about the system.
cowicide — 2014-06-21T08:51:38-04:00 — #15
My plan is to starve the beast, not feed it more.
You're just repeating yourself. That's not a plan, that's empty platitudes. Again...
You give your power(money) to those institutions then complain about what they do with it.
I do? Which institutions and please copy and paste and link my specific complaints. Or are you simply being disingenuous, amorphous and obscure once again?
And, please spare us the empty platitudes.
I am aware of your slacktivism, people new to politics and naivety about the system.
Ah, so that's your plan. To be pretentious and claim in infantile ignorance to know what all my civil actions consist of (when you don't have a clue). And, of course, pretentiously claim your superior knowledge of politics and "the system" without providing any backup whatsoever or any plan of action whatsoever or showing any valid knowledge whatsoever of the strategy and goals of the very organization you keep deriding?
What a plan, dude.
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T09:03:15-04:00 — #16
I know your mindset, that's how I know you naively think your slacktivism is going to change the system. But feel free to sign petitions and post things to facebook and send in contributions to career politicans. Feeding the beast. Just don't go all rogue, or apathetic, when you realize it was for naught.
cowicide — 2014-06-21T09:04:49-04:00 — #17
I know your mindset
You may think you do, but what's your plan? I'm asking you what your plan is. Repeatedly. Do you not really have a plan? Is your only real plan involve coming into this thread and naysaying?
Or, do you have a plan? Let's hear your plan without the amorphous platitudes. That is... if you've got a real plan...
I know your mindset, that's how I know you naively think your slacktivism is going to change the system. But feel free to sign petitions and post things to facebook and send in contributions to career politicans.
Um, that's delusional. You don't know me at all (and it shows). And, if you did know me instead of basing your incredibly pompous and pretentious opinions out of thin air, you'd know that I'm active offline as well as online.
You know my mindset about as well as you know the strategy and goals of the very organization you keep deriding. Not at all.
But, then again, why are you making this about me? Why in the world would you continue to desperately divert from your great plan? Aren't you desperate to share you superior plan with all of us?
I'm still waiting to hear what your plan is.
So far we've got "starve the beast" and your grandiose, baseless claims of superior knowledge of politics and "the system".
Care to share your "Starve The Beast" plan or are you still making it up as you go along?
How will your "Starve The Beast" plan be accomplished? Where does it start? What's the root of it, so to speak?
Tell us all about your superior "Starve The Beast" plan. Surely, it's already in action, correct? Where do we all sign up? Or is it this old, failed drivel from the Reagan era? And, that's why you're embarrassed to spell it out beyond spewing empty platitudes?
jake_stevens — 2014-06-21T09:38:20-04:00 — #18
Money is very important in the current system, but actual people power and public opinion isn't worthless. The issue is that you need at least some money to get people organized. Raising money for the under-funded but superior candidates can have a huge multiplier effect. Some corporate candidate going from $9 million to $10 million isn't a big deal, but a liberal going from $0 to $1 million can be a gigantic deal.
acerplatanoides — 2014-06-21T09:40:03-04:00 — #19
Take it from this guy, he will mansplain to you about what your choices are, and are not.
In the name of freedom. Heh.
middlewaytao — 2014-06-21T09:40:43-04:00 — #20
So you fully agree with the supreme court that money = speech?
Because you have adopted that as your primary political action.
Save the glittery gif post for your facebook.
jake_stevens — 2014-06-21T09:41:07-04:00 — #21
As long as the government exists the choosing of who runs it is going to be a big deal. Putting a lot of effort into getting the right people in office is not 'feeding the beast' because if you don't do it the only result will be that you lose influence while those willing to make the effort see their's increase. It would be great if everyone could just agree to spontaneously stop putting money in politics, but unless we pass a law to that effect as Lessig is suggesting, it doesn't seem likely.
jake_stevens — 2014-06-21T09:43:21-04:00 — #22
It's not about whether anyone agrees that that should be the situation - but the fact is that money is currently a huge part of politics in this country, and pretending that isn't the case doesn't help anyone except everybody else spending money on politics who will enjoy the reduced competition.
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