1980 D&D ad asserts that RPGs are woman-friendly

This is as stark an example of the modern denial of human nature as you can find.

“a kind of sad snapshot of our lost, pre-Reagan/Thatcher/Pinochet/Mulroney-era past”

Either you believe that men and women, by design, enjoy imagining whacking each other with swords to differing degrees, or you believe that women are under the control of Reagan, Thatcher, Mulroney, and oh yeah, Pinochet.

The latter is an insult to women to the extreme, if you think about it. The bed that today’s liberals and quasi-feminists have made for themselves is that they portray members of the female gender as sheep, or willing slaves. Of course, they also see every gender difference as manifestation of oppression and subjugation. Women like to wear makeup and have silky, heathy hair? The characterization of the “victims” is not so stirring, but the demonization of the male-dominated, agenda-driven beauty industry is.

To the deniers of human nature, the view of men and women as different is an insult to humanity. The reason? It implies to them a reduction of perceived freedom. It implies that we’re tethered to one degree or another to our biology. Obvious in the data, but not obvious to them, is that this is actually the case.

That phrase, the modern denial of human nature, is the subtitle of Steven Pinker’s book, The Blank Slate. This book should be required reading by liberal and conservative thinkers alike. If it was, 1/3 of all BoingBoing posts would dry up, and BoingBoing would be far better off.

Or, you can keep believing that boys who obsess about solving the Rubik’s cube really really fast are shutting out young women from doing the same. And their parents tacitly oppressed their daughters, too.

This winter, look down the next a hole in the street that you come across. You’ll see men wrestling with frozen pipes, possibly with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths. The quasi-feminists rail against the relative dearth of women in Silicon Valley, but never it seems, in those holes. They don’t seem to lament the underrepresentation of female violent crime. On the other side of the coin, they don’t seem to lament the underrepresent the number of posts by males on Facebook. They don’t seem to lament the glass ceiling that prevents men from taking billions upon billions of selfies since the advent of camera phones. They don’t rage against the shutting out of men in the fields of early education, psychology, and speech/language pathology. They don’t rage against the near-total absence of men at Beyonce concerts, or of women at Rush concerts.

If you accept on its face that skewed outcomes are manifestations of injustice of one sort or another, then the above should have you deeply concerned. Why aren’t you? Here’s why: those inequities don’t result in the kind of charge you get from pointing out, and thus being a resistor of oppression.

To my gratification my son plays D&D on occasion. When they get together, there may be 7 kids, with two being girls. I suppose you have think that while they’re thrilled to have those two young women there (they are), they are tacitly pushing away all other girls that would otherwise want to participate.

Not to put too fine a point on it, if you and the other BoingBoing oppression pointer-outers give it just one further level of critical thinking, you will find that your worldview is built on sand. It’s the modern denial of human nature. You’re a part of it, and you’re wrong.

You aren’t doing that critical thinking. You should. J’accuse!

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If you’ll take a casual glance at some of the threads discussing how women are being threatened with rape and violent death for publishing critiques of computer games, you might get a sense what the point is, here.

Woman have participated in table-top role-playing games since the beginning, despite the recurring denial of their presence, just as they have been involved in computer games, and the IT industry as a whole. Pressure on them to leave has been escalating. This is not human nature. This is an active social conflict.

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A tad ironic coming from somebody recommending pseudoscientific garbage like The Blank Slate. Followed by a bunch of the usual anti-feminist canards.

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Feel free to outline the claims and their sources that you take issue with, and why. Until then, your refutation of it has the passion of an oppression pointer-outer, but no content.

Silly, it wasn’t losing Gygax, it was Reagan/Thatcher/Pinochet/Mulroney! It was a campaign promise on all their platforms.

Really? Steven Pinker? or his book?

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You seem to like that phrase. You used it in this thread, and also here, and here.

Could you give some examples, perhaps from earlier, more rational times, of feminists who were not “quasi” ?

More generally, could you give some examples of any form of feminism or liberalism to which you do not object?

In the absence of such examples, your posts convey the passion of a Men’s Rights Activist, but no content.

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They tried it again in 1983 with a TV ad:

Really.

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I wouldn’t exactly refer to shilling (required reading?) a pop-science/culture book as substantive support for any argument. Not that there’s anything wrong with them, as such.

I can understand the idea of there being an innate human nature, and if it’s real, it doesn’t much matter whether I believe in it or not. I am a classicist, radical, and transhumanist - so you would probably find the reconciliation of these ideas troubling.

Here’s an exercise of my critical thinking:

So, everybody, by default, believes one of these two notions…

So, to respect women, I need to believe that:

Yo! Yo! Thaz maaad silly, dawg!

There is probably some truth behind your contemporary cultural observations, but there is no evidence here that being designed with a certain nature might be the cause. Anybody can always explain what they have perceived as being the result of some natural order.

My experience is that society is not based upon the acceptance of a human nature. It is based upon the exploitation of a perceived human nature. When people are encouraged to be predictable, to have similar motivations, values, and goals - then an advantaged person can exploit the predictability of the masses. They do this by working outside of the system they create for others, or may exist naturally. I am not pointing this out as a value judgment about its ethics or efficacy, merely a description of how I see it working. We can indulge, exploit, or transcend our condition - whatever you want to call it.

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Yes! I do mean it as a representation what I think about today’s feminist movement. Of course, there’s no one definition of the term, but in my own hyphenated term, I’m referring to the conflating of gender equality in terms of rights, with gender equality in terms of men and women being clones, and its attending inference that expressions of gender differences are necessarily expressions of gender oppression.

“More generally, could you give some examples of any form of feminism or liberalism to which you do not object?”

That’s a pretty broad question, and there are too many to name. But as I’ve noted, any and all efforts to instil in our society the value of gender equality in rights would be not just values that I approve of, but values that are inarguably correct on a moral level. I’m going to guess that that’s not good enough for people reading this comment, so feel free to stay put off by my disentangling of rights versus gender differences.

“In the absence of such examples, your posts convey the passion of a Men’s Rights Activist, but no content.”

I’m not a Men’s Rights Activist, whatever that is, but since you level the term toward me, I’ll say that induces a little nausea to me that part of the mix of the quasi-feminist stance is a ridiculing of male counterparts to gender rights.

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Ken Nordine!

It’s certainly easier to prove the effects of Aspirin than the effects of gender, but as intermingled with the nurture side as it is, the biological basis for behaviour and disposition is not outside the realm of observable science. Height, intelligence, gender differences… All the result of upbringing and genetics. If you believe the stuff after the word “and” plays a part, then you agree with me, and you disagree with the subtext of the kinds of posts on BoingBoing that I’m challenging.

Show me where, in one of these kinds of posts on BoingBoing, the author has said, “not that I would expect men and women to exhibit identical interests, dispositions, and outcomes…”. We can agree that there are remnants of gender inequality in our society. But it’s also the case that there is a gigantic blind spot in effect on BoingBoing (which is a drop in the bucket of the perspective overall), and that’s what I’m pointing out.

I can remember seeing several ads with those huge miniatures (if that isn’t a contradiction in terms) and a fancy board. I wanted those so badly! I can’t remember ever actually seeing them for sale anywhere, though, and even if I had, I doubt I could have afforded them on my allowance.

This one has Mom and Sis playing!

This one must have been Thatcher’s idea:

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I think that’s a fair enough point.

It’s a shame that it also seems fair to say that Pinker’s book suffers a ‘paucity of nuance’, since I believe this is also a fair criticism of his targets.

As both a dyed-in-the-wool leftie and a science fan to the core, I’ve often been troubled by idealist dogma on my side of the political fence; facts (both established and likely) are the best thing for anyone to employ as a basis.

IMO nurture is almost entirely capable of overcoming nature, but only if that nature is first recognised.

And also that there’s a special circle of hell for Reagan, Thatcher, Friedman, et al, and that the world would have been much better off without them.

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I doubt the thousands of dead leftists agree with you.

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You appear to be a sentient collection of MRA talking points. How’s that working out for you?

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You don’t think that perhaps you might be jumping the shark a tad?

I realise @paulduv employing the term ‘quasi-feminist’ would have automatically set off a bunch of alarms, and although I myself don’t entirely agree with his position, I think he’s actually onto something… he is, as you admit yourself, sentient.

And blithely dismissing his point as ‘MRA’ rantings does little to dispel the whiff of groupthink I caught just now.

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Seriously? He’s on to something?!?!

It’s MRA alarms all the way down matey. And thanks for the “groupthink” jibe too. Now I know which ends of the spectrum we’re both coming from.

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