Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb!
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you obviously need to watch more “forensic files”. 
honestly, i do think media influences people’s perceptions of policing ( see: “cops” ) and forensic files leaves you with the distinct impression that pew pew guns and respect my authority beat em ups are entirely unnecessary for solving crimes and arresting suspects. ( gee, who knew. )
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That’s why 20th Century Fox kept their latest superhero movie on the shelf for three years.
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Given the thousands of police shows om the air - isn’t it time for some shows about protestors and social justice warriors life’s?
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I believe that such criticism exists, but as someone previously addicted to SVU (target demographic sucker, I am) I disagree with it. It seemed to me that almost every crime was solved by a detective harassing someone into confessing after beating them up in a bar or coercing evidence out of somewhere. It was all yelling, kicking in doors without warrants, and “bending rules because the guy is clearly evil because it’s John Ritter”.
I think the criticism leveled at shows like CSI is much more valid, though. Those shows have convinced everyone that real crimes are all solved by Magic Science and thus no wrongly convicted people exist in prisons and all murders are solved in 44 minutes, give or take. Those shows have deeply undermined rationality, because forensics is absolutely riddled with pseudoscience nonsense like handwriting analysis, blood spatter analysis, and bullet/gun matching. People are falsely convicted every day because of fake science and hunches of juries, but shows like that cover it all up.
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Whatever you think of the methods presented in the various Law & Order series, they all presented a version of the Criminal Justice System that was far more effective and less corrupt/problematic than the one we actually have. Detective Stabler bent the rules, but he never murdered an unarmed suspect because they were black or planted evidence to cover his ass. The DA’s office strong-armed a few suspects but they never pursued cases against people they knew to be innocent. And by presenting a version of the justice system that doesn’t have those problems, the series is effectively propaganda.
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100% agree there, of course. I should have been more specific in that I disagree with the procedural critiques of those shows (that the system is shown as all by the book, when it is really isn’t shown that way at all). They of course completely ignore systemic racism, militarization, corruption, qualified immunity, and all the other massive problems with US policing. I can see how this would mislead people into thinking the system is better than it is.
The more we talk, the less I like my original comment. I had a petard to raise about sloppy procedure and fake science in those shows, but said petard is pretty tone deaf in light of what people like me have learned about US policing in the last year, so I shall hoist myself upon it and let’s move on.
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So … Batman becomes The Punisher?
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This is a version of Batman that would actually make me interested in Batman.
Yeah, if nothing else, getting his rocks by dressing in a rubber outfit and beating up individual muggers he catches in the act would realistically have a negligible impact on crime rates. (It’s a problem with the whole traditional “superhero” thing. How many crimes would one detect in progress? Even the cops rarely manage it, and they’re everywhere.) I think at this point it’s pretty clear that (standard) Batman is actually a villain. Especially when juxtaposed with the “villains” he opposes, like Poison Ivy, who is taking on… major polluters.
It’s pretty amazing how often tv/movie cops “bend the rules” (i.e. totally violate the law) and how, even when they’re not doing that, they’re trying to figure out ways of subverting the rules while still, technically, being within the law. Plus, how the shows work hard at normalizing the idea of suspects not standing up for their constitutional rights and the destruction of the lives of (vindicated) suspects. Though we never get to see the wreckage of someone incorrectly suspected - as soon as they’re no longer suspects, boop they’re out of the narrative.
That show really quickly lost its way, considering the source material was literally a modern Robin Hood. But even so, by the time Queen in the mayor, he’s essentially become a season one villain - the head of a secret conspiracy working illegally to reshape the city. The lack of self-awareness by that show…
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You could say that about most “super heroes”. The stories are fantasy, where typically, the people at the other end of the batarang are understood to be “bad”. There is no question of guilt, the guy getting punched or tied up definitely brought it upon themselves.
So ANY semi-realistic setting is going to boil down to a hero’s "‘superpower’ ends up being “‘he ability to violate people’s Constitutional rights.’”
Even the more fantastic super heroes. Captain America punching Neo-Nazis? Neo-Nazis still have Constitutional rights. Spider-man beating up bank robbers and tying them to a lamp post? Bank robbers still have Constitutional rights.Superman grabbing a hostage taker by the belt and flying them up 10,000 feet in the air? That guy still have Constitutional rights. Green Arrow and Green Lantern kicking the butt of some rednecks down south? Violating Constitutional rights. Wolverine slashes up one of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants? That guy still had Constitutional rights. I mean… what kind of School is Professor X running here? A school training teenagers to become clandestine fighters against their government??
I guess when it comes to robots, aliens, supernatural, or powers we are actually at war with (like actual Nazis in WWII), they are fair game. Blade is probably cool, as vampires don’t have Constitutional rights.
So while people like to pick on Batman and call him a fascist, pretty much all super heroes are vigilantes outside of the law. Regardless of their good intentions and just trying to do the right thing, the fact they are outside the system means they aren’t - if you want to over analyze things. Some characters who are anti-heroes like The Punisher at least acknowledge this.
They are morality plays - where the hero stops the evil doers. But they are also fantasy, because in real life heroes have to play within the rules.
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It’s more than that, in the comics he was effectively a libertarian-socialist who didn’t trust government to not become corrupted by people seeking power.
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And if they can’t, they get to dramatically throw down their badge on the chief’s desk and go full on vigilante with zero consequences.
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Stopping a crime in progress (like webbing up some bank robbers) doesn’t raise the same legal and ethical issues as beating up/scaring the hell out of a suspect to get information as Batman often does.
Spider-Man’s real power seems to be the ability to be at the right place at the right time to encounter all these muggings/bank robberies/jewel heists. Most of us can go an entire lifetime without happening upon a bank robbery in progress.
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Yeah, he tends to be on scene for those events even when he’s not looking for crime. But that’s what he gets for banking at the one financial institution in New York that keeps it’s cash in large, cartoon moneybags.
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It reminds me of the New 52 re-imagining of Superman’s rise as a reporter. Instead of being instantly hired at the Daily Planet, he started out as an independent blogger exposing corruption in Metropolis. I think this is the kind of thing that I wish would’ve stuck around in DC. I’d love to see Batman totally rebooted with this proposed origin since it would bring a new angle to his motives and the struggles he faces. Amusingly, during the DC You initiative they killed off Batman but some how Bruce Wayne survived with his memories as Batman gone he started helping out the poor in the city. It was a weird arc with Jim Gordan taking the role as Batman but he wasn’t half bad since he played more to his detective skills. It’s just sad they didn’t let it last longer.
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I heard a rumor that the city of Beverly Hills made a choice – they wanted to keep the number of officers down to save money and told them they’d look the other way in case they violated anyone’s rights. Premise being, I have to imagine, that it’s cheaper and easier to violate people’s rights than to respect them.
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Spider-man certainly is more squeaky clean than Batman. But he punches and kicks people a whole lot - which if a cop did we would consider brutality.
And he wasn’t above scaring the crap out of bad guys.
That’s his Spidey-sense leading him to where he is needed!
Side note - Spidey’s co-creator was Steve Ditko who was a pretty staunch Objectivist. So he saw things in black and white, leading to him creating Mr. A and other characters later. But Ditko would agree Spidey was a good guy. I am not sure if he ever said what he thought about say The Dark Knight returns.
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How we got here:
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Criterion Pivot Batman v. KoTOR Batman, Syd Mead setpieces, GCPD always organizing with the public, here goes…
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