So, what’s the fundamental difference between the charge that brings 18 months in jail, versus the one that brings 60 months in jail?
I think it’s the gun enhancement, as far as the different statutes. It sounds like they want him to opt for the non-gun alternative as a plea, which would likely mean probation only on the 18 months rather than the active mandatory minimum if he lost at trial.
No you can’t.
It was an armorer’s mistake back then. It is one now. An actor isn’t trained to tell the difference between dummy (real looking but non firing) and live ammunition. Nor is it their job to prepare the prop gun.
A producer is not responsible for behavior in front of a camera or directly on a set. We are talking about criminal liability. Something that requires meeting legal definitions to the letter, a person who definitely committed the illegal act, and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Civil liability/negligence is a far more nebulous thing and only requires a preponderance of the evidence.
It’s a a heavy burden to be sure. Can the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a gun was involved? These are the kinds of hard questions that only juries can answer.
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Yeah I get that. This story always felt like Production over working the crew with going way deep and not providing local housing so after wrap crew was driving for an hour to get to the hotels. And then back again for the next call. It was so bad that some crew were sleeping in their cars so they would not risk driving while exhausted. When people are tired they make mistakes. Some mistakes can be deadly as in this case. Same with the 2nd AC, Sarah Jones, who was run over by a freight train in 2014. Do we hold the The producers and ADs who decided to go to that location despite not having permission to be there Responsible or do we hold the Dop or 1st AC who was her direct supervisor responsible? These are rhetorical questions since I do not know all the details. and I for one will always be more forgiving to the below the line folks over production.
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Yup.
Double yup. It’s neither the actor’s job or the producer’s job either; however after this I could see insurance/bond companies demanding double or even triple checks before the director can use the “action” command as a result of this fiasco.
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A “prop” is the term used on a film set for any object in front of a camera which is handled by an actor. It has nothing to do with whether the gun was capable of firing live ammunition or not. It was both a real gun and a prop. The two terms mean different things.
On a movie set the people with that duty are: A Prop Master who handles all props used in the film, including the firearms which appear on screen. An Armorer, who handles specifically firearms props to ensure they are safe to use on set and a 2nd Assistant director who is the official on-set safety officer for a movie production.
At no point is the actor the one involved.
People don’t usually handle weapons as part of creating make believe events on screen. What one does with a weapon at a firing range, their home, or in public places is not the same as what is done on a film set. Your generality is half-baked and completely ignores the fundamental difference between acting and other jobs.
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Are you aware of information that the prosecutor in the case doesn’t have? 
I’m guessing that the prosecutor knows what they’re doing here. They very well might be over-charging to bring Baldwin to the table to plead it out… or he may have information that is NOT publicly available that makes this charge more appropriate. I’m gonna say that the prosecutor who regularly brings indictments might know more than either of us, especially with regards to a case they are actively working on.
Yeah, and if you recall, this was all happening around the same time that IATSE was discussing a strike over working conditions in general on film sets…
I can understand that and largely agree with you. But this is the decision that prosecutor made, so maybe he has details on her role that is not public? My guess is that she’ll plead out, though. But we’ll see.
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I have heard the argument about who is responsible many times, and how acting is somehow a special situation, but it just doesn’t make sense to me.
What is special about acting that it can’t have the “Safety is everyones responsibility” policy of basically every other job?
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I wouldn’t. Not under these circumstances. Especially given the high media profile of the incident, the local politics involved with the indictment and with a defendant who can afford really competent legal counsel.
Fact remains homicide needs a knowing act, even involuntary manslaughter. At no point is an actor a safety officer on a film set. Short of Baldwin taking on the role of armorer himself, there isn’t much to pin a conviction on here.
I wouldn’t. Since most people indicted for serious crimes do not have high paid criminal defense counsel to call out prosecutors when they overstep. People with decent representation have a much higher than average chance of avoiding conviction.
Are you in posession of ALL the evidence, though? I’m guessing, once again, that the prosecutor knows more about this case than we do. I doubt that ALL the facts are out in the public. And again, this could be a tactic to get Baldwin to plead, but there might be evidence that warrants this charge. But you most likely do not know that, and neither do I.
Hell, maybe they found out that Baldwin had some sort of fucked up vendetta against Hutchins or something weird like that… Fact is that we don’t know, because we don’t have access to the evidence!
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Just because you don’t want to believe a movie set has layers of organization set up to ensure safety of those involved doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
The fact that you have very clearly delineated roles in a movie set concerning safety of actors and crew. The existence of armorers, prop masters and a second assistant director mean everybody but the shlub in front of the camera has a part in handling this sort of thing.
For analogy, is an Indy driver responsible for the quality of tires put on a car in the middle of a race? No, the pit crew is. Whereas when we drive our personal cars and neglect tire condition, we are responsible.
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What evidence do you think can exist which changes Baldwin from an actor on a live set to an armorer?
Why would you believe that every shred of evidence about this case is available to the public? When is that ever the case?
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It’s not a matter of that. It’s a matter of what is possible or likely here. It would take some might convoluted Columbo episode level machinations to find something that suddenly turns Baldwin form an actor on set holding a gun giving by an armorer to someone who committed homicide.
Yes. It is. Do you think that prosecutors release all their evidence in open investigations to the public? Why would they do that? They base their indictments on the facts that they have (which they often hold back from the public) and sometimes they include things to get the person to plead out. WE do not have access to ALL the information that they have. I’m not sure why you believe that you do, when I highly doubt ALL evidence is in the public.
You’re basing your views (or you seem to be, at least) on what we know that was released to the public. Isn’t it possible that there is some real world evidence that justifies this charge? Why are you so sure that this is the wrong charge to bring, other than the fact that you believe that involuntary manslaughter MUST be intentional?
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The only answer you are going to accept here is…
Fine.
BTW I am basing a good deal of my views on well worn patterns of behavior by prosecutors on high profile cases and the fact that Baldwin capable of hiring good expensive defense counsel.
Um, what… I didn’t think I was acting so sure about all the facts of the case (which I keep repeatedly saying NONE of us have), and nor am I second guessing the prosecutor, but okay… Of course it’s possible that they got it wrong, but I never suggested otherwise… I was just tryign to point out that none of us ACTUALLY know what the prosecutor has and why they made this decision on this case. If I’m wrong, and you’re actually working on this case, or know some who does, you could… say so…
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I looked up various states involuntary manslaughter statutes and New Mexico’s in particular says this…
Involuntary manslaughter statute excludes all cases of intentional killing, and includes only unintentional killings by acts unlawful, but not felonious, or lawful, but done in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection;
So it seems the charge does not need a knowing act just an accident that could have been avoided with due caution and circumspect.
Maybe the prosecutor thinks that due caution was Baldwin inspecting the gun himself or due caution might have been hiring someone competent to load and inspect the gun.
Until a trial starts we have no way of knowing what the prosecution’s theory is.
I wish Court TV was still a thing because this trial would be Must See TV.
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I didn’t mean to imply there aren’t layers of safety but rather ask why there isn’t a check at the end of the chain?
My perspective is from healthcare where we double check everything with very detailed protocols and checklists.
I just can’t wrap my head around why a deadly weapon can ever be treated be treated as completely safe by the last person in the chain? As a not quite great analogy would an actor not check a spring loaded prop knife or have the person handing it to them demonstrate its functionality before using it?
I personally see a difference in the Indy car analogy for several reasons. The driver can’t even see the rear wheels for e.g. . Also the layers of safety in the pit stop are practiced ad nauseum in an incredibly well organized procedure. In comparison this story sounds like a safety system with failure points that were not controlled. As a result someone died. That sounds like a process that needs serious re-examination.
Edit to add a dumb question: Are safety processes in the industry standardized?
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