Every time there’s anything in 2016 that seems almost hopeful it’s immediately ruined by some horrible mitigating factor or set of factors that show we’re really just in for more pain. Not that I really have any hope of a recount happening, or of it changing anything even if it somehow resulted in showing Trump lost the EC. We’re at the culmination of decades of extremist right-wing ideologues long running war on reality, failed leadership, failed education, and failed media - a recount isn’t enough to fix things. No matter what it’s plutocratic feudalism in the US.
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At the same time, if Clinton had won the media would still be explaining that we really need to spend more time listening to/catering to disgruntled white people at the expense of everyone else.
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I think a recount is more important in framing how we want to deal with electronic voting.
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I just wonder what recounts do if votes were fraudulent. I mean, in third world countries with corrupt governments I’ve heard of acid being poured into ballot boxes. A little more crude than rigging an electronic machine, but aren’t the results the same? If the machines were hacked, is there anything to count that doesn’t just say the hacked result?
It depends where the fraud/tampering occurs. There are a lot of diff’t systems. In TX where I am there’s an electronic system with no auditing or paper trail so we’re just in the dark 100%. Some systems are either scantron based or create a paper receipt for auditing, but not all. There’s an assumption that in those cases where there is an audit record there’s the possibility of attacks on electoral systems changing the numbers reported by the machines. That’s what the audits can check. It’s only partial/limited coverage, and could well not be the place that an attack hits, and even if the recount/audit occurs I’m not really investing any hope that it’ll find anything. There was a lot of suspicious behavior by attackers before the election probing voting systems, some successful, but it’s possible that if they did manage an attack, that they covered their tracks.
This isn’t to say that I think this was a fair election at all, since there was all kinds of misbehavior in the fake news, manipulation of fake news to get it to trend, hack attacks by Russia to slam Clinton, voter disenfranchisement through voter id, Crosscheck mass disenfranchisement, limiting polling places where electoral authorities would prefer people not vote, etc.
Side note, my daughter is in school in Lubbock and was disenfranchised by her registration being conveniently “lost” as were those of a number of fellow students - there’s certainly more than one way to cheat in/steal an election and in this case my loathing of the GOP’s fraud is very personal so I’m really biased.
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I don’t think her gender transition would change the fact that they were born identical twins. They still came from the same egg, which is the definition of being identical. It doesn’t mean that they always look exactly alike, always.
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I understand that Jill Stein is calling for a recount only in states that could change the results for HRC, but she is not doing it in any way to benefit Clinton.
It is pretty hypocritical to say that one side investigation voting irregularities is “Not respecting the results of the election”, and the other side asking the same question is “making sure what the results are”. Especially since the parties switched perspectives on the issue suddenly. I suppose it does not matter any more, since people are so polarized these days that they will suspend all rational skepticism to support their party and candidate.
Just in case you weren’t aware, Jill Stein is calling for a recount in the states with the highest discrepancies in exit poll results vs reported results (except OH where no recount is possible). These were also states where the outcomes were in starkest contrast to expected results from polling prior to the elections. So while I can’t speak for her reasoning in choosing those states, there could well be something in her thought process for why she chose them.
Alternately, maybe it’s just because she’s a Green and Trump’s planning a program of massive environmental irresponsibility and irreversible ecological damage.
I dunno. I don’t think she’s given an account.
If there weren’t major irregularities in the electoral outcome then it would make sense to respect the outcome. Since there are major irregularities it’s not hypocritical to care about this.
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I don’t know if anyone remembers this far back, but a few months ago it was considered sort of a hate crime to publicly support Trump, at least in some places. I suspect that my son voted for Trump, but he would never have told anyone at his school about his vote. The angry progressives can persecute anyone who speaks against their views, but the secret ballot process does not allow them to make sure that anyone actually votes for the “proper and approved candidate”.
No, sorry, I can’t remember that far back. Let’s stick to current events, rather than irrelevant tangents about memories of the past, thanks.
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I think it dumb to say that someone’s idea is actually a front for another whole plan.
But I suppose if all you have is an agenda, it’s helpful to spin disparate facts into a shaggy dog story about how its every one else is who has an agenda.
So it’s dumb, but such fictions are very soothing to the terrified fearmongers among us.
Heck. Most tribal identifiers are dumb. But what is stupid is not seeing when one is being dumb to protect ones own fragile worldview from a reality where we are all equal, by using lies to fill in where the truth has been ignored
I feel bad for the guy at this point. Delusions only end one of two ways.
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but a few months ago it was considered sort of a hate crime to publicly support Trump,
Public support for racist hate mongers has its benefits max. Being despised by decent people is one of those benefits.
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AND THAT OLD SAW CUTS BOTH WAYS.
By the way, anger that burns cold and calm is just as real as anger that throws expletives and open derision, except the former is less honest, MAX.
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its pretty dishonest to cherry pick, too. Selective memories SURE ARE CONVENIENT
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The secret ballot process also has a… PAPER TRAIL
Are you saying you would support an audit-able paper trail where original ballots are kept, and that you would question an election system which disallows one?
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I do believe in making the system as tamper-proof as possible, including some sort of feedback to tell people that their votes were recorded properly. I do not believe it would be good to keep a record of who any particular person has voted for.
Yes, I have been pretty dishonest to call out both sides for their hypocrisy. It would have been better if I had only pointed out that the party you oppose had changed their views on the integrity of the process.
It would have been better for you to call out ill-action than it would be to step back and claim hypocrisy, pretending to be above partisan hackery.
You have your preferences and allegiances, you are not superior to us. You are not “above it” by self-decree.
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But max is the last honest man, don’t you see that??? 
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