On mobile, so I can only respond to one thing. This Patriarchy thing. Men have an easier time getting raises and getting promotions - even getting hired - and are treated with more respect by male customers than their female counterparts, because they possess a penis. Their pay is not tied to performance but status as a family member. There are many households in poverty in Canada because men refuse to accept their wives - equals under law - entering the workforce.
Right?
Now, if someone wanted to have a productive talk about gender theory or if we’re in 5th wave feminism now and what does that mean, I’m up for that! But “why are you so terrible” is just not a conversation I’m willing to have. Shocking!
My mom and I did, but it was the 70’s when women were paid about 70% of what men were paid for the same job, but the same jobs weren’t available to freshly divorced women with no university education, only shitty jobs for low pay were available. Further, I didn’t eat Government Cheese before my parents divorced.
I would certainly hope things aren’t as terrible 30-odd years later.
On paper, no. In practice… here are two examples. Both from Canada, where generally there’s only child support, no alimony.
One is from a divorce that happened when the kids were aged 3 and less than 1. The father paid exactly 2 child support payments, ever, and never visited the kids. He had a job with the government and was making a good salary. Attempts to make him pay support failed, including wage garnishing (his lawyer argued garnishing wasn’t appropriate and won).
Long after birth kids were over 18 and therefore not entitled to support anymore, his daughter contacted him, hoping to get to know him. His response was to have his lawyer send a threatening letter to her mother. The mother hadn’t even known the daughter had found a way to contact him.
Second example: parents have joint custody, expenses are supposed to be split. The father never goes shopping with the kids for things like school supplies because before the divorce that was always the wife’s job. The mother has to send him receipts to split the expenses. Except he never pays, so she has to escalate and escalate just to get these split costs covered per the agreement. Eventually she gives up and shoulders the costs on her own, because it’s costing too much money in lawyer and other fees just to get him to do what he said he would.
Now, I’m sure you could find equally deadbeat mothers if you went looking. I don’t think, given that nowadays the kids do usually wind up with the mother, that you could find them in equal numbers.
Oh, I won’t deny the existence of the deadbeats, they’re certainly out there. Michigan made an aggressive campaign against them about a decade ago, tossing many in jail (which is so counterproductive, I just can’t even). The employment and educational opportunities for women have improved, though, so that 70% reduction in standard of living is far less likely to be a claim that one could find evidence for today.
In that case I jumped to conclusions and wasn’t fair to you. I’m sorry about that.
I won’t carry on except to give some background on my psychology, since the topic came up. It is a triggering issue for me, and I maybeprobablydefinitely shouldn’t have raised it. I’ve had too many guy friends lose too much from divorces that robbed them of their security while the court acted like this was in the children’s best interest.
A friend is currently going through a divorce, and it seems like his wife had been trying to fabricate evidence of IPV over the months before. For example, she tried to get him to act out beating her for some kind of PSA on IPV (he wouldn’t do it). He’s suddenly and unexpectedly been put in a very unstable situation and while he may theoretically be able to show that he is innocent, he’s being pressured to admit to at least some of the claims against him. He can’t afford the costs of lawyers and the fees to see his son. His mental health is terrible. Another guy ended up staying with my parents for a while, because he was left sleeping in his car. Apparently men are better off financially after a divorce, but I honestly haven’t seen any that were. It’s not like the women I’ve known were doing great either, but there was never any threat that it would be that bad. They still had their kids and a place to live. Those two weren’t the only ones to be discarded either.
So yeah… having family around me and financial security is very important to me. Stability and security. While I trust my wife, the thought still really bothers me – maybe it’s just abstract, or the fact that I would not recover from it and any chance is too high. I do get abnormally anxious about any perceived threats to security.
I’ve also read a lot of online comments from the wives of guys with Aspergers. Many of them feel emotionally abused because of the neurological differences and problems with communication. I’ve heard the term “emotional vampire” and many similar sentiments being used to refer to men with Aspergers in general. The advice they often give each other is to prepare in advance, then just cut off ties suddenly, get out and go no contact. It isn’t my wife talking, but I’ll admit that I can take it personally and it still freaks me out (even though I stopped visiting those sites a while ago). With ADHD, I’ve read calls from women to any guys with it never to breed. Claims that the divorce rate for both are in the 80s. Advice from women on both sites on how to make sure they don’t share custody. I went on these sites to learn relationship and life skills for people with my issues, but the bitterness is horrible.
If my wife wasn’t happy with me and wanted to leave, I’d want to know about it and process any change that was going to happen well in advance. She is and she doesn’t, but I still hear the judgement from the other people.
You have triggers. I respect that. You are discussing something profoundly specific. This topic is generally more, err, general.
I hear you. Your message and tone convey a lot of intense emotions.
When I feel like what I suspect you are feeling–hell, I’m the guy whose wife divorced him for being an emotional recluse–what I do are breathing exercises.
Break ups suck and are often full of acrimony. I had a friend just have her husband walk out on her, after supporting him through grad school. He’s being kind of a dick about it all. But it’s not because he’s a guy (or necessarily a bad person overall). A long term relationship comes with lots of emotional baggage for all involved and often, people do things in the break up they normally wouldn’t because they are hurt, angry, scared, and feel rejected. It certainly doesn’t excuse being mean, but it’s often disconnected from how the person normally is and from their gender.
Women being shitty isn’t about feminism or equality. It’s about women being flawed human beings, just like men and not having to deal with assumption that when a woman does something shitty, it’s because she’s a woman rather than a individual with a complex make up. It’s about us getting the same chances and opportunities as men.
I think that @Missy_Pants is correct about taking a break here. It sounds like you’re upset about something else and you’re letting that color your view of what feminism is and means a little bit.
It drives me up the wall when people turn their break-up into a battle of the sexes.
I don’t understand why so many people who break up (literally: most people) go straight to, “Men suck!” “Women are nuts!”
Like, I’m sorry you happen to be straight (or bi, I s’pose) but why is that the go-to response to a parting of ways? I’ve had women ask me, “Why do men _____? What does it mean that X ____?”
I dunno–I’m not a telepath! (Usually the answer is he’s not that into you.) I end up asking, “Why would you do _________ in his position?” This seems to be the one area where even long-time feminists seem to cling to dichotomous gender essentialism.
I have no idea why this turned into a rant… I’ve not been annoyed by this in recent memory. I guess I was saving it?
