I can see why they did it. Whether they showed up or not, the vote would win a simple majority but not a 2/3 supermajority; and if they had showed up, it could be claimed they were implicitly granting the vote a legitimacy they don’t believe it had. So nothing to gain by attending (except, as you say, maybe foreign headlines) and something to lose.
The Spanish government may not have intended to give that impression, but if not, it’s one of the greatest accidental achievements in recent history.
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This is also what happens when you send the goon squad to use violence to suppress the “illegal referendum”. It tends to keep certain people home (who don’t want to get beaten up/killed by police for voting to support the state).
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Because they don’t want to lose?
You post shows that @doctorow 's misleading articles are certainly working!
“70-10 in favor” is such as sectarian subtitle that’s vomiting.
Most of of the opposition left the parliament to avoid taking part of a voting that violating even its own parliament rules a point that Cory Doctorow does not even try to address in the body of the article. Shame on you @doctorow!
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Different, sure.
OTOH, it is important to differentiate “less indoctrination” from “more subtle and sophisticated indoctrination”.
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Unless, of course, that difference of opinion is about fascism.
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The issue of Catalonian independence is morally grey, especially when viewed from afar. The issue of Spanish state violence against the Catalan people is not.
I really don’t have an opinion one way or the other on Catalan independence. But I have firm opinions on water cannons and riot police.
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I’m not even disagreeing with your sentiments (that Catalonia should not be allowed to secede at this time), however I hope you appreciate the irony of you, an obvious nationalist, saying: “If you [have observed] history, you will know that nationalists tend to distort the truth…”
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Cool fact: a faction of the major Catalan separatist party, Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya, had ties to the nazis in the 1930s:
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A moose once bit my sister…
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Spain may not be the bad guy, but considering the violence the state forces inflicted on those who participated in the referendum, they certainly were a bad guy.
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IMHO the last portion of Lincoln’s letter (and the following dates) only serves to gainsay whatever negatives could be interpreted :
“I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed PERSONAL WISH THAT ALL MEN EVERY WHERE COULD BE FREE.” (My capitalizations.)
Signing of Emancipation Proclamation: 1/1/1863
Official Surrender of Southern Armies (Appomattox): 4/9/1865
Apparently, Lincoln came to believe (as evidenced by his actions) that freeing of the slaves would not stop him from ending the war.
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Congratulations, you’ve reach Godwin’s Law. I appreciate your imagination (and this blogger’s), but I prefer to trust historians. So, your theory is that those fighting against Franco were, actually, nazis! Wow!
I guess I’m allowed to keep playing Godwin’s Law, considering I was not the one who started. Here you have actual and visual proof of which side have ties with nazis/Hitler: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnqnq9EWcAASI1L.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZhOlaFIAAAo5tv.jpg
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@doctorow insists on presenting the issue as a Catalonia vs. rest of Spain issue, whereas it is OBJECTIVELY and UNDENIABLY a Catalonia vs Catalonia issue (only 41% supported independence on latest Catalonian government polls, only 48% voted for independentist parties on latest autonomic elections).
And this was before it was obvious that there would no automatic EU membership for a seceded Catalonia and before key companies started moving head and fiscal offices outside of Catalonia en masse (despite independentist promises to the contrary over the years, and I’m not just saying that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJhXRCdR1eY - Mas is the previous local president).
More subjectively, a high successfully populistic xenophobic Brexit-style (“we’re being robbed, we’ll do much better without you”) independentism has masterfully executed a social engineering process over the years through control of local media and state schools that has deeply fractured society in two. Brothers, long-time friends do not talk to each other. Despite the evidence, some want to portray Spain as a fascist country when it is in fact Spain’s openness not to centrally control education and regional media that allowed for this monster to foster.
This is not Gandhi here. This is Farage, Maduro and Wilders.
This is not smiling people legitimately asking for rights which they mostly already have. If you dare expressing anti-independentist views and even try that your child gets schooled in Spanish a mere 25% of time they’ll make your life miserable.
( https://www.elespanol.com/espana/20160424/119738178_0.html , can’t find link in English, sorry )
Here’s a video showing what happened if you tried to attend university during a recent strike : you just can’t ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOdYorwu_E ), while local (mostly pro-independentist) police simply observe how basic rights are violated before their eyes). How is this freedom, smiles and peace?
How all this is a “wonderful thing” I really fail to see. Perhaps @doctorow will at some time bother explaining why he is supporting Catalan independentism. Confusing a socially selfish supremacist movement for a freedom movement is a dangerous precedent in today’s World.
And this is no grass roots movement originally. ANC and Omnium Cultural are professional organizations dedicated to actively promoting independentism that was traditionally marginal. OC received 20 million euro in subsidies over the last decade, and ANC has received both direct and indirect subsidizing.
In the latest weeks, however, the “silent majority” has finally broken free of their fear of making themselves visible, to show Spanish flags on their balconies and to attend massive demonstrations ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBakfolFZ5A )
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In case anyone has forgotten, silent majority is a phrase Richard Nixon introduced to the English language to describe his own supporters who supposedly wanted to keep bombing Vietnam.
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A good point. I keep forgetting that Cory’s narrative conveniently leaves out that there is massive intra-Catalonian protest against how In the independence movement handles things. Like boycotting both the referendum and, as a logical result, the vote. If half of the lawmakers walk out in protest, the whole thing has already no propaganda value, despite clinging to technicalities.
It’s not just a matter of slim majorities. While I, for example, wouldn’t have hold a Brexit majority without a super-majority, I take the overall British reaction to it as a sign of their democratic maturity.
The Catalonia independence movement, while I acknowledge many of their points regarding Madrid, not so much. That’s not a parliament I want to see in the EU, a breakup would be prefarable to repeat Weimar on a continental level.
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His brand is „stick it to the Man” and he’s simply staying true to it.
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To trust historians means a series of photographs that proves that one guy met one guy that met one guy that knew Franco? ¡Gimme a break!
This is nothing to do Godwin’s Law. The picture, unfortunately is true. ERC, traditionally the only major independentist party in Catalonia, had armed paramilitary forces in the 1930s, similar to nazi SA, know as escamots or “el fascio de Maciá” (Maciá was the founder of ERC). Not just saying, you can see them here ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQOzmSranM ). Local president Companys, also from ERC, signed hundreds of death sentences. Here you can see a listing of the names of 8000 civilians assassinated under ERC’s presidency during the Spanish Civil War (LISTADO COMPLETO DE LOS MÁS DE 8.400 CATALANES ASESINADOS DURANTE EL MANDATO DE COMPANYS (1936-39)). And Companys, a celebrated independentist hero by many, set up concentration camps where civilians would die by the dozen due to terrible conditions ( http://www.verdudigital.net/ramonboledacases/historia/documents_historia/omells.pdf ). These are true historic precedents of Catalan independentism.
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