Comprehensively addressing the stupid, intellectually dishonest critique of Anita Sarkeesian

I didn’t rain vitriol on you. I said I was glad that you were around to point out these connections that the rest of us missed. Particularly the connection between “Anna” and this thread. It appears you decided to take that as an attack… maybe you don’t think a person could actually be possibly congratulating you on your thoughtfulness? As if you already know that is outside the realm of possibility?

I think one might accuse you of “raining vitriol” when you say that Cory wants to create a “fox-news style echo chamber” or that Sarkeesian (this is who you meant by “Anna”, right?) is intellectually dishonest. Or were these things, rather than being vitriol, intelligent debate?

You talk about winning the hearts and minds, so let’s speak objectively. In 20 years, do you think that,broadly speaking, gamers will think that the current standard of “sexist” content is more or less acceptable than they do now? In other words, will the hearts and minds of gamers actually be swayed by this? I have a feeling this video series will have a better record than Iraq.

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Video criticism of the thunderf00t video that some people like to point at.

I’ve not yet watched it, but if it’s good enough for Anita it seems worthy to share here.

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I’ve been pretty far down his rabbithole (hrrm…) over the past couple of weeks, and I think it’s safe to say that, no, there are not.

He truly takes self-important skeeviness to a whole new level.

It doesn’t help his presentation that he talks like a nine-year old kid coming up with “cool” one-liners for his action figures.

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STOP THE PRESSES! THIS GUY NAILS IT

See. Men are boxes. Women are balls of wire. CASE CLOSED


Wait. WTF is he talking about?

 

 

Okay, this is maybe only slightly tangentially related to the topic at hand. But when I read it, I thought of this thread.

I do not like that image. I do not like the text in that image. I do not like them, Sam-I-Am.

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So anyhoo.

Earlier, I tried posting a reply to somebody. The Forum Police Message popped up saying I had exceeded my maximum number of posts and would have to wait eight hours before posting again.

I can take a hint, quick as the next guy.

And it’s difficult to disagree.

I have spent way too much time tic tac toeing on this post. Time to move on.

Please feel free to post replies to any of my posts. I just won’t be monitoring or replying.

Thank you for the discourse. It was mostly fun.

Have fun and adios! :smiley:

OMG! This needs to be a thing on the internet somehow…

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Erm, I never did. And it’s “malinda” anyway?!

Youch!

It’s nice seeing this exact point laid out patiently in clear unequivocal terms about forty times per thread. This is a particularly good example, it would be nice to be able to just pin it somewhere and point to it. Forty times a thread. Because people just don’t get it. Like, ever.

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Except Sarekeesian has never, ever, to my recollection, in any of her Tropes vs Women in Video Games made that statement.

So, there’s that.

Also, I’m not your mate, pal. I’m not your pal, buddy. I’m not your buddy, sport. Aussies have a tendency to use the term “mate”. Sorry it wasn’t to your liking. >.<

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Does BoingBoing have a bozofilter?

Huh. That’s not the one I brought up, either.

I hate to admit it, but…I’ve watched it from afar, and yeah…things like the snarky comebacks, referring to her critics generically as “gamers”, etc. doesn’t help.

None of that excuses it. Not by a long shot. But my guess is that, when you get down to it, she’s getting a bunch of socially awkward 14-year-olds (you know, the kids who yell about “cunts” and “Jews” on games with the ability to talk to fellow players–and we keep giving the little shitheads attention.

Male allies are essential in the fight for gender justice. “White Knight” is a slur used to discourage men from taking a stand.

The first time I ever heard “White Knight”, it was from a feminist, directed against me, because some dudebro was hurtling abuse at her on the Internet and I was getting pretty angry about it. I got a fair amount of sarcastic abuse, from the victim. Wasn’t the last time it happened, either; I eventually just stopped standing up for women online, because it was made clear to me that I was treating women like they were basically weak and needed a man’s protection.

And now…smh.

As evidence that it’s probably socially awkward kids, here’s a bunch of rape and death threats, rewritten to mention Sarkeesian, but were actually originally directed toward Jack Thompson, the guy whose primary sin was that he criticized the video game industry for producing violent content, that teenagers were using games as “murder simulators” iirc. I think many of us agree that video games don’t make people violent. So, aside from the fact that Thompson actually sued game makers, what makes his actual critique less valid, and what makes the rape and death threats against him less serious?

I think the main difference here is that Jack Thompson was pretty much a troll (have a wander through the Thompson-related articles on Game Politics for examples) who was all about censorship. Sarkeesian is a critic, not a censor, and she hasn’t engaged in the inflammatory behaviour that Thompson was renowned for back in the day.

That is not to say the threats made to him are somehow less bad - just that using what happened to him to compare to Sarkeesian is like comparing apples and something that isn’t even a fruit.

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I’m not sure censorship vs. criticism is that big of a differentiator. Think back to the abuse heaped on Tipper Gore by Jello Biafra, Dee Snyder, John Denver(!), Joey Ramone, Frank Zappa, Megadeth, and Anthrax because she lobbied to get labels put on albums. She wasn’t even trying to get the music changed. I don’t remember that kind of abuse being lobbed at Al Gore for pushing for the Clipper Chip.

I don’t think some game fans see the difference between game companies taking the criticism to heart, and censorship, to be honest, especially when game journalism outlets are insta-banning comments that even seem to disagree, and I think looking at the mid-80s response to Gore bears that out. I mean, Hook In Mouth is a reaction to the PMRC. And the trial was about voluntary labeling.

And of course, there’s the dickhead brigade that’s likely shouting about “PC bullshit”…meh.

(It pains me to admit that I used to like that Anthrax song, mainly for the shocking language, the pro-First Amendment message, and the kickass cover of the Bonanza theme.)

Well, the people hurling the threats don’t seem to see the difference, but we do, so comparisons between Sarkeesian and Thompson don’t really work. They are two people connected by the fact that they have both had video games made about attacking them. Jack Thompson is distinguished as being the guy who was disbarred for filing bogus lawsuits. I think that’s enough difference for me.

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Free speech doesn’t give you the right to force your speech on someone else - it only protects you from the government censoring your words.

Ummm - I read her kickstarter where it lays out specifically why she started the video series - what she will do for the money given - and what the parameters of the project are? None of them state start/or have a discussion.

In progress… I’m working on trying to figure out the new twitter auth-system for bot-apps…

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Now you’re being willfully obtuse…

In case you’re not, you “get” that when say that some users may not see it that way, and given that, they may be reacting in a similar manner to both Thompson and Sarkeesian, right?

I agree with his point there, but I still feel like the parts she shows aren’t always sexist. For the last video she had to focus almost totally on mafia games, well of course any open world mafia game is going to have strippers and prostitutes, that is unfortunately part of their business they’re bad guys. It being an open world game of course they’d be non-immortal. Sure some of the scenes are gratuitous but I honestly don’t even remember the strip club in Mafia 2.

I can understand some of it, but it felt like she really missed the point in The Darkness 2, it was probably one of the most depressing crawls through a whore house I’ve ever had in a video game, maybe discounting VtM: Bloodlines where they were using the women as livestock. I just watch her videos and usually stop because it doesn’t feel like she suggests any real solution or ever brings forth good examples. I mean in Yakuza the Host Club minigame has women who have likes and dislikes, dynamism, names, etc. Is that what she wanted or not, she mentioned something about it, though it would seem to be aware you’re criticizing a lot of crime games and look at what is sometimes erroneously called the Japanese GTA.

The main issue is they’re videos that aren’t for your average gamer, and while journalists and other people seem to enjoy them very much, you’re always going to hear this shit from the peanut gallery. Same as with pewdiepie’s garbage, some people just don’t like it and keep talking about it.

I realize the irony there but I saw this post while googling her name and figured I’d check it out and felt like crapping out my opinion, enjoy.