Well, sometimes it’s possible to peripherally experience these things, because you’re standing right next to them occurring. It’s not like minorities only get fucked with when no “reasonable privileged folks” are around. I’m white, and live in a majority-black city. Institutionalized racism is pretty dang obvious, I don’t need to take anyone’s word for it, I can see it all around me.
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Sure, but at the end of the day, who do you think is better situated to offer details about institutionalized racism? Who can offer the most insight and knowledge?
A white person who sees it, or a POC who is living it?
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A person who comes from a group that is considered “historically oppressed” does not necessarily have a special understanding of that oppression. Especially if the oppression happened generations or centuries ago.
Just to clarify, are you under the impression that historically oppressed groups no longer experience oppression institutionally, culturally, and individually?
@NickyG, this is what the graphic @Melz2 posted is meant to address.
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Oh my fucking GAWD with the disingenuous bullshit and deflections.
‘Historically’ means that it has been happening perpetually throughout recent history; not that it happened ‘once, long ago and and far, far away.’
This shit is still going on; it never fucking stopped:
And yet you sit there and have the audacity to state I and others don’t have a “special understanding” of the oppression we face, daily.
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Are you stating the racial minorities aren’t still at a major disadvantage in America? Because the facts seem to indicate otherwise. The passage of civil rights laws in the mid 60s helped, but there is still a long way to go before we have a postracial America.
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Because it’s possible for one to care about another person’s struggle even when that one doesn’t get to define it for the other.
It looks like i should have waited a moment to respond, because this comment is the one i should have responded to. You seem to be asking not only to have a voice in the dialogue, but to control it. The meme you responded to didn’t say “those who look like the oppressed should never speak”, it says “those who have the same privileges as the oppressor should listen first”.
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And, as explained up-thread, the recipe was blatantly stolen.
Exactly!
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I’m not sure where you got that impression, but it’s not at all what I meant to convey. I think the first step very much is for members of a privileged group to listen to the stories of the oppressed, do some research into the issues at play, get informed about the realities of the situation. Not sure how “involved with” means the same thing as “control.” You also took my first quote out of context, methinks. But no worries, yo. 
I’ll just say, I’m not sure that ArchStanton was necessarily referring to black people in America. Could have been, but I took the comment to be a bit more rhetorical. For instance, an American of Irish descent doesn’t necessarily understand the plight of Irish indentured servants in colonial America. I could be wrong, but you know, benefit of the doubt and all that. 
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I strongly disagree. My brother is Black (and Vietnamese (you all can probably guess what bit of horrible history led to us being blessed with our then-new family member)). I am more likely to sympathize, but i can not know what it is like for him inside the black skin. This difference in skin tone, which is so trivial biologically, radically changes how society treats him, and hence, considering the total historical context of his personal history, how he reacts to society and feels about it.
Edited to stop implying he’s still new to the family.
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And even when some of its manifestations were diminished, such as red-lining, the effects linger. The financial and social status of your grandparents will affect you.
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Well, by that definition, I have no way of knowing that any other entity on this planet is actually conscious, and not just an automaton.
I was describing empathy and sympathy, not a literal “I’ve been in that exact situation” kind of awareness. We literally cannot understand anyone else’s direct experience when it comes to anything.
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It boggles my mind how blind so many people are to this kind of thing. There are people alive today whose grandparents were literally slaves – 150 years or so is bupkis in the scheme of things. It takes a really long time for things to “peter out.”
But then again, most people (Americans) seem to be barely educated, very much including history/sociology/economics/cultural studies, so I guess it’s not too surprising that they are so ignorant of cause and effect. In fact I’d find it downright depressing, if I didn’t think we live in a “simulated reality.”
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I am not claiming that there are still not obstacles to overcome. Or that nobody is oppressed. That is why I added “if the oppression happened generations or centuries ago”.
I guess I’m unsure of what point you were hoping to make, with regards to the topic of cultural appropriate and various forms of oppression happening today?
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I really was trying to speak of oppression in the distant past. The primary topic here is cultural appropriation. If we discuss dreadlocks, for example, their history of use goes far into the distant past, over multiple cultures. When someone claims that their heritage gives them unique insight into their proper use, and that when they are worn by the wrong sort of people it becomes a form of oppression, I have to disagree.
The same person who is enraged at a White Rasta and his dreadlocks, might not object to others wearing hair extensions, which often come from the world’s poorest people, sometimes through force. That issue is certainly on topic.
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The complaint is not about proper use. Yes, locks and braids have been seen in other cultures historically, but in the last century they were tied strongly to certain groups’ religious practice and with political rebellion.
"Bahatowie priests of the Ethiopian Coptic church locked their hair since the fifth century, but the practice absorbed political meaning when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935, forcing Emperor Haile Selassie (Ras Tafari) into exile. Some Jamaicans, under British colonial rule, believed Selassie was a messiah, descended from David, a prophecy foretold in the Christian Book of Revelation. Guerrilla warriors under the command of Ras Abebe Aregai swore not to cut their locks until Selassie was restored to the throne. Rastafarianism was born.
As images circulated of colonial-ruled peoples in Ethiopia and later Kenya, the hairstyle was adopted in Jamaica. Dreadlocks as a term finds its origins in the corrosive tongue of British imperialists in Jamaica.
In Kenya, Kikuyu freedom fighters known for their locked hair fought their British colonial foes. In Dread: The Rastafarians of Jamaica, Father Joseph Owens notes, “locks especially are considered to be a vital link with anciency, since they symbolise man’s yearning to return to the unsophisticated ways of ‘creation-living’ … [They] are the sign of the ancient covenant between God and his people.”"
The real issue is not just the signifigance that locks have for the cultures I referred to, but the fact that when black people wear locks they are treated poorly. They lose jobs and get kicked out of schools.
What better illustration of privilege than the dominant culture sporting a style “for fun” when the culture traditionally associated with that style is still penalized for wearing it?
Please remember that the discrimination against natural hair and cultural styles is a pervasive part of American history.
"I don’t know if you all know this, but white people attempted to strip all pocs in america of their culture. I mentioned a very few select examples of this previously. Even today, people are facing repercussions for simply practicing their own cultures, in an attempt to force them to assimilate to whiteness and white standards. Black people have been kicked out of school for having natural hair styles, I, personally have been told to straighten my hair or not be hired, the military banned black hairstyles not to mention things like Muslims being killed for minding their damn business and praying or just simply existing and many other horrid things that happen daily. I bring that up to make the point that, some people have just given in and assimilated to whiteness for the sake of their lives being spared. So yeah someone might “act white” or alter their appearance to look white, because Y’ALL FUCKING TOLD US TO! You don’t get to then turn around and whine “appropriation” when for hundreds of years you, and your people have been forcing us to assimilate and leave our individual cultures behind.
It all boils down to something Paul Mooney (look him up) said,
“Everybody wanna be a nigga, but don’t nobody want to be a nigga”. In other words, everyone wants to participate in the “fun” parts of people’s cultures. Take the hairstyles and clothes you think are cute, so you can get likes on Instagram, but you don’t actually want to have to live life as us. You don’t want to actually be treated like a nigger, you just want the cute fun parts of being a nigga. You don’t wanna be killed every 28 hours by police, you don’t wanna be kicked out of school for wearing your natural hair, you don’t want to have lesser pay, you don’t want to be called a nigger, you don’t wanna be lynched, beaten, oppressed and every other struggle we deal with every single day. We don’t get to leave our blackness behind. We don’t to pretend to be white, it doesn’t work both ways. We are black 24/7, 365 days a year. Our culture is something we live constantly, not when it’s convenient. So you don’t get to pretend to be black (or anything else) for fun, and then when shit gets tough and it’s time to fight for black lives, all the sudden you ghost and hide behind your whiteness. Nah, we don’t need to share shit with you, we don’t need to get over it, because we still do not have equal rights or justice. So until YOU receive the same punishments I do for wearing cornrows, dreadlocs or walking into a store while black, you don’t get to take part in my culture."
Edits: proper quotation.
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LOVE him.
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