@#$%, Stephen Schenck, there is NO singular you in English. As much as thou mightest wish otherwise, since thou hast dismissed the common usage of singular they, thou canst not appeal to the common use of singular you to defend thine abuse of our language.
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Grammar tragic who pops up randomly to defend they/them/their as singular, gender-neutral pronouns here.
- It’s less ugly than either re-writing everything to avoid the pronoun, or using invented forms like “s/he”.
- it was standard for centuries - “In the 19th century, grammarians in England petitioned the British Parliament to declare gender-indeterminate pronouns as ‘he’ rather than ‘they’, which was common usage at the time” (wikipedia)
- Most readers even today don’t notice it as “wrong” when it’s used.
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So you do run into the odd person who claims singular “they” is always wrong, but they usually don’t seem to mind using it in practice, when gender issues aren’t being considered.
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Petard. Kaboom.
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Do as I say, not as I do!! Rabble rabble!
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And when the majority of engineers are male, one is going to have the majority of pronouns being male. This is only a slight improvement over the current situation, and the chances are that the majority males will squeeze out any use of female pronouns within a few years, for the usual bullshit reasons.
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Force him to eat his own children.
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I think the broader point is that engineers should try to design things that work for their users, not just for themselves. Otherwise you end up with painted braille, which shows the right spots to sighted users, but has no actual bumps for blind users. I think gender-inclusivity has been an issue, indirectly, where ergonomic height requirements are an issue.
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Here’s how I approach the grammar: Does it work? Do people understand that words that are coming out of the my mouth without excessive difficulty? Then it’s fine. Using they/their may garner objections from pedants but the meaning is evident without anyone having to scratch their head over it. Does it violate some plural-singular rule? Make an exception, like so many already in the language. It’s English, not Sumerian. We’re allowed to make ALL the rules up as we go, we’re the ones who have to speak it.
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Sadistic ass-hat. You knowingly delivered something that you knew would not be acceptable, yet took their money while being sadistic about them. Fucking moron/thief.
Absolutely. Single strongest reason for being inclusive on this or other axes – outside of it just being the right thing to do – is that it’s the best way to make sure you’re addressing your customers’ needs, and thus the best way to make sure they remain your customers.
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That bullshit reason could be as simple as ambivalence on it and laziness to address a problem not perceived as one. And for a purely personal anecdote, the majority of engineers I know are very lazy when it comes to a problem they don’t consider theirs.
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Language exists to serve us, no the other way around.
Here here! They/them works fine for the purpose of gender neutrality, is easily understood by the average reader, and does not require coining a new term.
Which is not to say never use gender-specific pronouns, just limit to them to when they are necessary.
“Bob clicks the button on the prostate cancer test kit order form and to adds it to his cart. His friends see the link on their social media news streams and they click like.”
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I think it’s fine to use one or the other or none at all, but an insistence to use a particular one or the other is clearly unacceptable. One must ensure the safety interlocks are engaged before pulling the lever. The operator, upon discovering a malfunction in the filtering process needs only to reset the initial database parameters to restore proper filtering. He may then proceed with testing further inputs. Once the operator has defined the tolerance levels for the new test, she then sets in motion the spring-valve, thereby ensuring smooth operation. Before activating the mulching sequence, you must ensure you have pre-set all safety measures including hand blocks and toe guards. If not, you will be very sorry, indeed.
If you use "girl"I hope you are just as happy to use “boy”. No more men, only boys.
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Yeah, “they” is a singular pronoun in English. There’s a recent prejudice that it shouldn’t be, but it was good enough for Shakespeare.
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Here are some level-headed summaries of what actually occurred here:
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You know, it’s not Godwin, when we are actually talking about Nazis. Werner von Braun applied for membership in 1937.
No, that’s the actual product. Engineering can be totally void of obvious practical application, though it is indeed seldom done this way, because building bridges costs a wee bit more than the stack of paper and pencils needed for maths.
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It’s not that either. Well it’s presented that way, as a way for the company to save face, but the real issue is a person working on a project decided to disobey an order. That is the same as saying, “No I’m not going to do that.” to your boss (without any real reason as why you shouldn’t or couldn’t.) In most companies that would get your fired or at least put on the short list for who is next.
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As someone who studied electrical engineering I’m going to point out something - writing code is not what people who went to school for engineering do. Yes it may be part of what they do, and if so it will be in context of a larger project, but it is not all they do.
A few programmers could be good engineers, some engineers could make good programers, but they are not usually the same.
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